How do agnostics handle their own death?

reallife wrote:

Agnosticism shows it's own irrelevancy and uselessness as it's "I dunno" philosophy is replaced by certainty in one direction or the other.

I would have said the same thing as you some years ago. But over time, I realize, although there is no proof that there is a God that is acceptable to me, that does not mean that there is not something in the universe that is a higher being than humanity.

I used to think that agnosticism was waffling about the issue. I now realize that human beings know pitifully little about the universe, with all our knowledge.

BTW, if I learned TODAY that there was a higher power, I would never get on my knees in fervent worship. IMO, that is for the birds!

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I agree, Phoenix, I can't imagine a higher being wanting to be worshiped. I can't think of anyone I respect wanting to be worshipped.

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snood wrote:

Why should you give a damn about your legacy? No reason, unless by chance you give a damn about anyone besides yourself.

I do not know you from Adam, and you certainly have no clue as to whether I do, or do not, give a damn about anyone but myself.....so your snipe does not merit an explanation.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

reallife wrote:

Agnosticism shows it's own irrelevancy and uselessness as it's "I dunno" philosophy is replaced by certainty in one direction or the other.

I would have said the same thing as you some years ago. But over time, I realize, although there is no proof that there is a God that is acceptable to me, that does not mean that there is not something in the universe that is a higher being than humanity.

I used to think that agnosticism was waffling about the issue. I now realize that human beings know pitifully little about the universe, with all our knowledge.

BTW, if I learned TODAY that there was a higher power, I would never get on my knees in fervent worship. IMO, that is for the birds!

Do you think that you owe your parents any respect or honor or thanks for giving you life, teaching you, providing for you, protecting you, etc?

If you met the governor, or the president would you recognize that there is a different protocol for interacting with them, as distinct from meeting Joe Shmoe on the street, and that someone in that position is deserving of a different measure of respect, etc ?

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real life wrote:

Do you think that you owe your parents any respect or honor or thanks for giving you life, teaching you, providing for you, protecting you, etc?

Having brought a child into the world, parents are doing no great favor to said child to provide for their needs and a few of their wants. The child is incapable for their childhood of doing so him- or herself, so this is not a reasonable analogy. Do you think people should be congratulated for taking responsibility for their own actions?

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If you met the governor, or the president would you recognize that there is a different protocol for interacting with them, as distinct from meeting Joe Shmoe on the street, and that someone in that position is deserving of a different measure of respect, etc ?

Having been elected to public office demonstrates only the ability to have presented a plausible image to the public--it in no way authorizes an assumption of superior authority or ability. The only difference worth noting is they may be surrounded by heavily-armed thugs, which suggests caution, not respect. All the citizens of a republic are as entitled to respect to the same degree as any other citizen, including the yops with deep pockets or rich backers who can get elected in order to serve the interests of their well-heeled cronies. This is the feeblest argument i could imagine. I address doctors, lawyers, professors--all people in this society as Mister or Miss, because all the citizens of a republic are deserving of the same mark of respect, and no more.

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Where is[/b] Frank? Rolling Eyes

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Lord Ellpus wrote:

snood wrote:
Why should you give a damn about your legacy? No reason, unless by chance you give a damn about anyone besides yourself.

I do not know you from Adam, and you certainly have no clue as to whether I do, or do not, give a damn about anyone but myself.....so your snipe does not merit an explanation.

Granted - I worded that too judgementally. Suffice it to say I just believe that it is natural for people to think of their own end from time to time.

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Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

what about the diagnostics? surely they might have something to say

They're always trying to figure things out and never seem to reach a conclusion. Laughing

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real life said:

>>When it comes down to reality, either the theist or the atheist is correct.

Either there IS a God (polytheism being merely a variant of theism for this aspect of the discussion) , or there IS NOT a God. <<

I disagree with these statements. There are a lot of other possible 'truths'.
It may turn out that the issue is irrelevent.

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flushd wrote:

real life said:

>>When it comes down to reality, either the theist or the atheist is correct.

Either there IS a God (polytheism being merely a variant of theism for this aspect of the discussion) , or there IS NOT a God. <<

I disagree with these statements. There are a lot of other possible 'truths'.
It may turn out that the issue is irrelevent.

On a True or False question the options of All of the Above or None of the Above are not available. Laughing

Regardless of our opinion of it's relevancy, it's still T or F.

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real life wrote:

When it comes down to reality, either the theist or the atheist is correct.

Oh really. Maybe REALITY is so complicated that both are correct...or both are wrong.

You sound like an ant arguing with another ant about whether or not there is another yard!

In any case, when it comes down to reality, we do not know if the theists guesses about REALITY are correct or the atheists guesses about REALITY are correct.

And that is the agnostic position. We do not know...even though we freely acknowledge that it appears as though one or the other (theistic or atheistic guessing) is correct.

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Either there IS a God (polytheism being merely a variant of theism for this aspect of the discussion) , or there IS NOT a God.

Well that certainly seems very cut and dry.

But since we do not know the complexity of the REALITY...you may be surprised that what you are suggesting is not so....no matter how certain it sounds.

Not terribly important in any case...because the truth of the matter is (it appears) WE DO NOT KNOW.

No reason for agnostics not to recognize that it appears as though either there is a God...or there are no gods. But since we do not know...we simply acknowledge that we do not know.

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Agnosticism shows it's own irrelevancy and uselessness as it's "I dunno" philosophy is replaced by certainty in one direction or the other.

What a trite notion.

But I guess for someone like you who seems to dread acknowledging that you "do not know"....some minor degree of satisfaction must be derived.

But you know...I am getting a kick out of it...like I got a kick out of what Snood said.

Sometimes you just get the feeling that you simply have become so important to someone else...that you, in effect, own them.

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I really wish someone had given me a heads up on this thread.

I've now read it...

...and doggone it...

...I have come down squarely with what an atheist had to say.

Set said it best.

We keel over and die.

Just like everyone else.

Unless we are already horizontal.

Like Phoenix, I had an encounter a while back with cancer...non-Hodgkins Lymphoma.

Really knocked the stuffings outta me.

I ended up going down to 114 pounds...and looked like an extra in the movie Schindler's List.

I thought it was the end...and pretty much told Nancy so. We talked and talked...and I kept my spirits up as much as possible (didn't do bad either...good sense of humor and still a reasonable sex drive).

Slowly but surely a turn came...although only after all appeared hopeless.

I never flinched a second.

Never had a thought about praying to any god...never had a moment of fear about having to deal with that kind of consequence.

Fact is...fear never really became a factor.

I thought things were over...but it was almost like I was interested if anything was going to come next.

Never made any guesses.

Stayed agnostic.

When my time comes...I'm just about certain I'll go out agnostic.

LAST THOUGHT: This whole issue seems contrived.