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Worshiping a God

 
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Aug, 2005 01:04 pm
neologist wrote:
mesquite wrote:
neologist wrote:
"For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome." (1John 5:3)

All 200+ ??
Christians are no longer obligated by the law covenant. That's why they call it the NEW Testament.


So Neo, do we have a redacted version of the Bible which shows which of those commandments no longer apply so we know which ones John had in mind?
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Aug, 2005 03:02 pm
Ray wrote:
I think Sturgis believed in a God that is different from the God depicted in many verses of the bible. Only Sturgis can answer though...



I have no real way of describing my belief in God in mere words. The Bible as such is a group of stories and in many cases guidelines, such as The Ten Commandments. Are there parts of The Bible which seem confusing or even contradictory? Yes. Keep in mind, The Bible which we read today, even The King James version is a far cry from the original text and each translation makes a change. Look at the differences between King James and Revised Standard Versions and The New English Version and I am sure a Spanish or French language Bible and are different in ways from the Douay-Rheims version of The Bible or any of a number of other variables.


The God of my understanding, The God to whom I pray and ask for guidance is found within my daily life. Church and Bibles are merely maps and maps are only as good as the reader.


As to you FrankApisa I will not make an effort to change your views, if you wish to believe that God is a mean and hateful Power then so be it. All I have done is state what I believe and being a gay man who has indeed placed my body next to another male I am aware that most versions of The Bible frown upon my being. That said, I need to say that The God I have in my life has shown me goodness and love on a regular basis. This is not to say my life has been without pain or difficulty but through those trials I have found an improved relationship with God. How can I possibly get that across to you? Answer: I can't. Feelings are what they are and vary from one to another and beliefs are what they are and also vary.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Aug, 2005 08:31 pm
So, are you Christian, Sturgis?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Aug, 2005 08:50 pm
Sturgis wrote:
As to you FrankApisa I will not make an effort to change your views, if you wish to believe that God is a mean and hateful Power then so be it.


Get your head in order, Sturgis.

I have never said that God is a mean and hateful power.

I have had some unpleasant things to say about the god described in the Bible...but I alway diffentiate that cartoon god from GOD.


Quote:

All I have done is state what I believe and being a gay man who has indeed placed my body next to another male I am aware that most versions of The Bible frown upon my being.


Could you direct us to the versions of the Bible...that do not frown upon it?

Just give us the titles....and publishers


Quote:
That said, I need to say that The God I have in my life has shown me goodness and love on a regular basis. This is not to say my life has been without pain or difficulty but through those trials I have found an improved relationship with God. How can I possibly get that across to you? Answer: I can't. Feelings are what they are and vary from one to another and beliefs are what they are and also vary.


Whatever!

Let's start with my request up above.

You mentioned that "most" versions of the Bible frown upon you being...by which, I am assuming you mean that you engage in homosexual acts.

Tell us the titles and publishers of all the Bibles that do not.

Then we can move on to this other stuff.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2005 07:35 am
Why bother FrankApisa? From my past encounters with you and from what I have seen throughout the board, it has become clear to me that you do not want to read or hear anything which is alien to you or in any way shape or form differing from your viewpoints. I will not suffer persons of such ilk. There truly is no way to openly communicate with you, you do not allow it.

I am always willing to discuss things, and do and often at great length; however, I see no need to continue along in our present format. In your usual manner of approach you take snips of information and frame them in some way and then before anybody can respond you shut the door and seal it tightly so you won't hear an answer...nice way to get imaginary protection; but not a way to grow. I myself prefer and need open discussions not one sided tirades of any sort. My statements prior to this, within this subject thread have made clear my beliefs and what I believe the Bible to be. A map or if you prefer, guidebook for life. However to use it verbatim is nuttier than a fruitcake. As I indicated the text of the Bible changes from one version to another. Use simple things such as 1-Corinthians 13:13 "Faith, hope and charity" changed over time to "Faith, hope and love." Charity and love are inter-related but have seperate meanings of their very own and so the Bible text starts conveying a new message.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2005 07:48 am
InfraBlue wrote:
So, are you Christian, Sturgis?


I am a believer in God as The Almighty power in charge of directing my life, although I am also (alas) given free will which means God places directives in front of me and I can choose to be good or bad, honest or dishonest and hurtful. Choices are mine which can sometimes and often does lead to disastrous results. Now that said, if I err deliberately and knowing that it will cause pain to another, that I believe is the sin. If I err because of poor judgement skills or being led astray in some manner and the suffering is caused prior to my seeing the warning lights, then that is not a sin. That is a disappointment to God and one which can be forgiven fully if I honestly and openly ask for Divine guidance. I also am of the belief that all sin can be forgiven if I seek it with as pure a heart and mind as I can possess. This means even a man (or woman) who murders intentionally and at one time derives pleasure from it, can be forgiven if they ask for that forgiveness from God and do so openly and honestly with a willingness at that moment to be a good person for the remainder of their days on Earth.


Some would argue that I am a Christian and perhaps I am. I believe that Jesus Christ existed and that he did indeed end up being crucified; however I am not as sure about all the reasons why and if it was to save us human beings. I do not classify myself as a Christian.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2005 09:14 am
Well...it looks as though Sturgis doesn't have the guts to address my question...and rather than simply acknowledge that he doesn't...he's wasting lots of band width rationalizing why he won't...which mostly amounts to saying he doesn't want to communicate with me.

Earlier, he wrote:

Quote:
All I have done is state what I believe and being a gay man who has indeed placed my body next to another male I am aware that most versions of The Bible frown upon my being.


I responded by asking:

Quote:
Could you direct us to the versions of the Bible...that do not frown upon it?

Just give us the titles....and publishers.

Let's start with my request up above.

You mentioned that "most" versions of the Bible frown upon your being...by which, I am assuming you mean that you engage in homosexual acts.

Tell us the titles and publishers of all the Bibles that do not.


Since Sturgis cannot deign to speak with me...perhaps someone else in the thread will ask this question...and see if Sturgis is just full of baloney on this issue.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2005 07:30 pm
Well, from what I gather from what you've written here, Sturgis, I don't think your idea of God is congruent with the god presented in the Bible. Your idea of God probably has a basis in the god of the Bible, and your theology is based on some of the tenets presented thereof, but it seems that your conception is very individualized, and you discard those tenets that don't appeal to you, or are incongruent themselves with your life.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2005 04:16 am
InfraBlue wrote:
Well, from what I gather from what you've written here, Sturgis, I don't think your idea of God is congruent with the god presented in the Bible. Your idea of God probably has a basis in the god of the Bible, and your theology is based on some of the tenets presented thereof, but it seems that your conception is very individualized, and you discard those tenets that don't appeal to you, or are incongruent themselves with your life.


Isn't this what all followers of the Theory of Christianity do?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2005 04:50 am
maporsche wrote:
InfraBlue wrote:
Well, from what I gather from what you've written here, Sturgis, I don't think your idea of God is congruent with the god presented in the Bible. Your idea of God probably has a basis in the god of the Bible, and your theology is based on some of the tenets presented thereof, but it seems that your conception is very individualized, and you discard those tenets that don't appeal to you, or are incongruent themselves with your life.


Isn't this what all followers of the Theory of Christianity do?


Don't know if it is every last one of 'em, Maporsche, but it sure does seem that way.
Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2005 04:51 am
Maporsche...since you are here...

...would you mind asking Sturgis my question and see if he will respond to you?
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2005 04:53 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
Maporsche...since you are here...

...would you mind asking Sturgis my question and see if he will respond to you?


Sure.

Sturgis, in reference to your post about different versions of the bible that do not frown upon homosexuality....

Could you direct us to the versions of the Bible...that do not frown upon it? Just give us the titles....and publishers.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2005 02:13 pm
maporsche wrote:
Isn't this what all followers of the Theory of Christianity do?


I think they all do to certain degrees, but Sturgis already said that he doesn't consider himself to be Christian.
0 Replies
 
CerealKiller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 01:07 am
Re: Worshiping a God
Phoenix32890 wrote:


I would really like to explore the entire concept of "worship". What does it mean to a believer? Is not simply leading a decent life enough?


Apparently not.

Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6).
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 05:08 am
Cereal killer- I really wanted to know YOUR ideas on the subject. Simply regurgitating a line from a religious tract says nothing to me.
0 Replies
 
CerealKiller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 10:27 pm
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Cereal killer- I really wanted to know YOUR ideas on the subject. Simply regurgitating a line from a religious tract says nothing to me.


I'm no longer a believer so MY ideas are if you wish to lead what you call a decent life without worship that is fine by me, but I'm not God.

So, if there is a god like the one described in the bible then our thoughts on the subject are really irrelevant. We may view things by degree, but that god doesn't.

So for believers the cutoff point is simply this; if you accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, believing Him to be the Son of God, and live your life accordingly (Jesus said, "If you love me you'll keep my commandments.") then you're in. You can't earn your way into Heaven by deeds. It's a gift. You reject that gift by rejecting Jesus, and by doing so, rejecting God. Rejecting or accepting isn't close to each other, they are opposites. You don't barely get into Heaven or Hell. You choose one or the other. If you choose God, that's a definitive choice and striving. Any other choice is a rejection.

It's an all or nothing proposition for the believer.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 03:22 am
CerealKiller wrote:
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Cereal killer- I really wanted to know YOUR ideas on the subject. Simply regurgitating a line from a religious tract says nothing to me.


I'm no longer a believer so MY ideas are if you wish to lead what you call a decent life without worship that is fine by me, but I'm not God.

So, if there is a god like the one described in the bible then our thoughts on the subject are really irrelevant.



And if so, I am in a mountain of trouble.

I am not worried in the least, though. It really makes almost no sense to suppose the Biblical rendition of a god is any closer to the truth than the ones supposed by the ancients of Egypt, Rome, Norway...or any other civilization.

Any reasonable reading of the Bible...especially the Old Testament...has to end in a guess that the book is primarily a (rather self-serving) history of the ancient Hebrews...with a comic book level mythology intertwined.

But...people for the last several thousand years have been terrified by the god of that book...

...and most are still too terrified of it to allow any doubt to intrude on their fears.

Too bad that!

It is contributing to the disintegration of humanity.
0 Replies
 
CerealKiller
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 09:52 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:



It is contributing to the disintegration of humanity.


How so ?

There have been plenty of wars where religion was a non-factor.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 10:21 pm
mesquite wrote:
neologist wrote:
mesquite wrote:
neologist wrote:
"For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome." (1John 5:3)

All 200+ ??
Christians are no longer obligated by the law covenant. That's why they call it the NEW Testament.


So Neo, do we have a redacted version of the Bible which shows which of those commandments no longer apply so we know which ones John had in mind?
No. Any version will do.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 10:45 pm
I believe in god, but I do not worship him/her/whatever. I also don't believe a word that is written in the bible. I think of it as a good fiction story.
The only time I go to church is for a funeral, wedding or baptism, so no worship going on here.
My god is too proud to have me on my knees kissing his/hers/whatevers feet ;-)

Carry on :-D
0 Replies
 
 

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