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Biblical Proof

 
 
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2005 11:22 am
The reservoir served as a gathering place for Jews making pilgrimages and is said in the Gospel of John to be the site where Jesus cured a blind man.
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/la-biblical-pool_ikxg2rnc,0,5152564.photo?coll=ny-statenews-headlines
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,218 • Replies: 28
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SuperScott
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2005 09:14 pm
Re: Biblical Pool Uncovered in Jerusalem
ConstitutionalGirl wrote:

More PROOF that the Bible is real!!!!! We don't need signs and wonders like the heathen do - we've got faith AND archeological evidence!!!!!!!!!!!



So you're telling me that just because people uncovered a pool that was noted in the bible, the whole book MUST be true? So even though many holy landmarks from other religions have been found also, Christianity must be the true religion. Even though thousands of fossils of dinosaur remains have been discovered contradicting the bible, this one pool proves that the bible is true. The findings of a pool is not evidence of your religion being true.
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Merry Andrew
 
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Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2005 10:19 pm
It's a significant discovery for historians. I fail to see what it has to do with theology or religion.
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Sanctuary
 
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Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2005 07:36 am
Merry Andrew wrote:
It's a significant discovery for historians. I fail to see what it has to do with theology or religion.


Amen.

Excuse the pun.
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2005 10:13 am
Sanctuary Honey!!!!!!

Where have you been!!!!!!

I've missed you!!!!
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Sanctuary
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2005 02:50 pm
Oh Chai, my love. I've missed you as well Very Happy I've been on a two-week haitus to New Mexico; back now! Thanks for the warm welcome Very Happy
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husker
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2005 02:56 pm
Sanctuary wrote:
Oh Chai, my love. I've missed you as well Very Happy I've been on a two-week haitus to New Mexico; back now! Thanks for the warm welcome Very Happy


Little off topic - glad to see you also - funny that Eva was also in NM and back now and she is from OK, now I'm wonder if all people from OK do this ritual in AUG.? :wink:
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2005 03:34 pm
Why didn't you tell us, Sanctuary
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Sanctuary
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2005 08:52 pm
Well I had no idea I had so many fans Laughing I appreciate it, ya'll...

Do you know what part Eva was visiting, Husker? What a coincidence that is, eh! New Mexico is truly different than Oklahoma, I love it there. I was in Southern NM, Las Cruces area. So much adobe Surprised
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2005 09:06 pm
Hey Husker how's the boy? You feeling better?
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husker
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2005 11:10 pm
Yeah I'm feeling pretty good - Missing the Mrs and Daughter, they are in Mexico and due home on Tuesday and the Son house sitting some really big dogs, I have a lot of silence here.
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 07:52 am
Re: Biblical Pool Uncovered in Jerusalem
ConstitutionalGirl wrote:
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationw...mostemailedlink

More PROOF that the Bible is real!!!!! We don't need signs and wonders like the heathen do - we've got faith AND archeological evidence!!!!!!!!!!!


Wow. One piece of evidence means something is true?

Ever noticed how the Earth wasn't as warm as it is now when there used to be more pirates, but it is now? That's proof Global Warming is the result of a reduction in numbers of pirates!

It's true!

http://www.venganza.org/
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 08:31 am
I'm always fascinated with geological finds that provide insight into the ways of our ancestors. This seems to be one of those finds. It's cool that the coins were inserted as a way to date the event. Perhaps they knew that at some point the area would be covered and anyone finding it would have a reference.

Doesn't that make you wonder what people will say two thousand years from now when they uncover the Empire State Building? Or Pentagon? Or St. Lous Arch? That last one might foster some interesting discussions.

The current uncovering indicates the pool was there. It doesn't prove anything except that the writer incorporated it into his writing, just as an author today might include one of the above mentioned structures.

Now, if they find Noah's Ark I'll be impressed.

Having said all of that, it's about faith. Not proof.
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 11:20 am
Great site, Wolf! I've forwarded the URL to several friends.

squinney -- I'm not sure I'd be that impressed with Noah's ark. An ark is an ark is an ark. If they found the remains of something like that on, say, the side of Mount Ararat in Turkey, all it would prove is that arks, such as the one described in Genesis, were, indeed commonly built in those days. How would they even prove it was Noah's?
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brahmin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 01:49 pm
"in NY, there's a statue of a lady with a torch.
2+2 make 34.
sky is red."



i wonder how those 3 lines would be interpreted when 5000 years from now the SoL is unearthed, and if the existance of the first will prove the last 2.
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ConstitutionalGirl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 02:32 pm
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ConstitutionalGirl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 02:33 pm
Thursday, Aug. 11, 2005
Ancient water system discovered near Jerusalem

By Michele Chabin

Religion News Service

JERUSALEM - Israeli and American archaeologists have discovered what they term a "monumental rock-hewn water system" near Jerusalem dating back to the eighth century B.C.

The discovery, announced Aug. 9, was made during an eight-week dig at a cave close to Jerusalem, in Ein Kerem, which is regarded as the traditional birthplace of John the Baptist.

Last summer, Shimon Gibson, the chief archaeologist at the dig, announced that he had found a cave that may have been used by John the Baptist to anoint his followers.

A statement by Gibson and archaeologist James Tabor from the University of North Carolina at Charlotte said that the latest excavations have revealed the cave to be part of "a much larger Iron Age water system, rock-cut in places to a depth of 65 feet."

The archaeologists said the cave, which dates back to the time of King Hezekiah (according to pottery shards from that period), contains a vertical shaft, an open horizontal corridor, a flight of stone steps above a tunnel and three external plastered pools, all of which was on the slope above an underground reservoir.

Although elaborate water systems "have been found elsewhere," Gibson said, until now they were discovered only within Israelite cities such as Beit Shemesh and Gibeon.

"Never before has such a massive water system been found isolated in the countryside without a town or city attached to it," Gibson said, leading the team to believe that the project had been undertaken "by the Kingdom of Judah."

The cave was discovered in 1999 and has been under excavation ever since.

Another ongoing biblical-era excavation -- what is believed to be the Pool of Siloam -- was highlighted in the latest issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, whose editor reported the find to The Los Angeles Times on Monday (Aug. 8).

For more than a year, archaeologists have been excavating the pool outside the walls of what was once the site of the biblical temples.

The pool was the main water reservoir for Jerusalem dwellers two millennia ago. It is fed by the nearby Gihon Spring, which has been under excavation for decades. In biblical times it was utilized by Jews making annual pilgrimages to ancient Jerusalem. The Gospel of John (Chapter 9) says that Jesus, one such pilgrim, cured a man of his blindness by the pool.

http://www.biblicalrecorder.org/con...05ancient.shtml
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ConstitutionalGirl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 02:40 pm
August 5, 2005
King David's Palace Is Found, Archaeologist Says

By STEVEN ERLANGER
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/08/05/international/jeru.184.1.jpg

JERUSALEM, Aug. 4 - An Israeli archaeologist says she has uncovered in East Jerusalem what may be the fabled palace of the biblical King David. Her work has been sponsored by a conservative Israeli research institute and financed by an American Jewish investment banker who would like to prove that Jerusalem was indeed the capital of the Jewish kingdom described in the Bible.
Other scholars are skeptical that the foundation walls discovered by the archaeologist, Eilat Mazar, are David's palace. But they acknowledge that what she has uncovered is rare and important: a major public building from around the 10th century B.C., with pottery shards that date to the time of David and Solomon and a government seal of an official mentioned in the book of Jeremiah.

The discovery is likely to be a new salvo in a major dispute in biblical archaeology: whether the kingdom of David was of some historical magnitude, or whether the kings were more like small tribal chieftains, reigning over another dusty hilltop.

The find will also be used in the broad political battle over Jerusalem - whether the Jews have their origins here and thus have some special hold on the place, or whether, as many Palestinians have said, including the late Yasir Arafat, the idea of a Jewish origin in Jerusalem is a myth used to justify conquest and occupation.

Hani Nur el-Din, a Palestinian professor of archaeology at Al Quds University, said he and his colleagues considered biblical archaeology an effort by Israelis "to fit historical evidence into a biblical context." He added: "The link between the historical evidence and the biblical narration, written much later, is largely missing. There's a kind of fiction about the 10th century. They try to link whatever they find to the biblical narration. They have a button, and they want to make a suit out of it."

Even Israeli archaeologists are not so sure that Ms. Mazar has found the palace - the house that Hiram, king of Tyre, built for the victorious king, at least as Samuel 2:5 describes it. It may also be the Fortress of Zion that David conquered from the Jebusites, who ruled Jerusalem before him, or some other structure about which the Bible is silent.

Either way, they are impressed by its likely importance. "This is a very significant discovery, given that Jerusalem as the capital of the united kingdom is very much unknown," said Gabriel Barkay, an archaeologist from Bar-Ilan University. "This is one of the first greetings we have from the Jerusalem of David and Solomon, a period which has played a kind of hide-and-seek with archaeologists for the last century."

Based on the Bible and a century of archaeology in this spot, Ms. Mazar, 48, speculated that a famous stepped-stone structure excavated previously was part of the fortress David conquered, and that his palace would have been built just outside the original walls of the cramped city, on the way to what his son, Solomon, built as the Temple Mount.

"When the Philistines came to fight, the Bible said that David went down from his house to the fortress," she said, her eyes bright. "I wondered, down from where? Presumably from where he lived, his palace."

"So I said, maybe there's something here," she added, referring to East Jerusalem.

David's palace was the topic of a last conversation Ms. Mazar had with her grandfather, Benjamin Mazar, a famous archaeologist who helped to train her and who died 10 years ago. Five months ago, with money and permission from the Ir David Foundation, which controls the site (and supports Jews moving into East Jerusalem), she finally began to dig.

Amihai Mazar, a professor of archaeology at Hebrew University, calls the find "something of a miracle." He says he believes that the building may be the Fortress of Zion that David is said to have conquered, which he renamed the City of David. "What she found is fascinating, whatever it is," he said.

Mr. Mazar is Ms. Mazar's second cousin, but he has his own reputation to protect.

Archaeologists debate "to what extent Jerusalem was an important city or even a city in the time of David and Samuel," he said. "Some believe it was tiny and the kingdom unimportant." The site of ancient Jerusalem, stuck between two valleys on a ridge south of the Temple Mount, is very small, less than 10 acres.

Israel Finkelstein, another renowned archaeologist, has suggested that without significant evidence, Jerusalem in this period was "perhaps not more than a typical hill-country village."

In his book, "The Bible Unearthed," Mr. Finkelstein writes with Neil Silberman, "Not only was any sign of monumental architecture missing, but so were even simple pottery shards."

Ms. Mazar believes she has found a riposte: a large public building, with at least some pottery of the time, and a bulla, or governmental seal, of an official - Jehucal (or Jucal), son of Shelemiah, son of Shevi - who is mentioned at least twice in the Book of Jeremiah.

The building can be reasonably dated by the pottery found above and below it. Ms. Mazar found on the bedrock a large floor of crushed limestone, indicating a large public space. The floor and fill above it contain pottery from Iron Age I of the 12th to 11th centuries B.C., just before David conquered Jerusalem.

Above that, Ms. Mazar found the foundations for this monumental building, with large boulders for walls that are about 2 yards thick and extend at least 30 yards. In one corner was pottery of Iron Age II, the 10th to 9th centuries, roughly the time of the united kingdom.

Unfortunately, Mr. Mazar said, she found no floor. It is clear the building was constructed after the pottery underneath it, but less clear exactly how much later.

The archaeological debate is also partly a debate over the roots of Zionism and the effort to find Jewish origins deep in the land. Ms. Mazar's latest dig, which has cost about $500,000, has been sponsored by Roger Hertog, a New York financier who is vice chairman of Alliance Capital Management. Mr. Hertog, who owns a piece of The New York Sun and The New Republic, is also chairman of the board of the Shalem Center in Jerusalem, where Ms. Mazar is a senior fellow.

The Shalem Center was founded as Israel's first "neoconservative think-tank," said William Kristol, who is also on the board, in an effort to give the Israeli right a better foundation in history, economics, archaeology and other topics.

Mr. Hertog calls his investment in Ms. Mazar "venture philanthropy - you have the opportunity for intellectual speculation, to fund something that is a work of great consequence." He said he hoped to show "that the Bible reflects Jewish history."

Ms. Mazar continues to dig, but right now, three families are living in houses where she would most like to explore. One family is Muslim, one Christian and one Jewish.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/05/i...ml?pagewanted=1
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 02:40 pm
Never underestimate the tenacity of a hard head . . .
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 05:40 am
Quote:
An Israeli archaeologist says she has uncovered in East Jerusalem what may be the fabled palace of the biblical King David. Her work has been sponsored by a conservative Israeli research institute and financed by an American Jewish investment banker who would like to prove that Jerusalem was indeed the capital of the Jewish kingdom described in the Bible.


Look at that excerpt.

Now imagine if it was a scientist trying to prove that tobacco had no harmful health effects and he was funded by a tobacco company.

I'm not saying that she is influenced by the companies, but she might be pressured into making conclusions that aren't real.

Besides, what does that prove, ConstitutionGirl?

A holy text obviously has to base its historical parts on real history for people to take it seriously.

Archaeologists have uncovered the ruins of Troy, but did that really mean the Greek Gods existed?
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