What is it LIKE to not believe in God...?

Re: What is it LIKE to not believe in God...?

peace_is_good wrote:

(Addressed to people who don't believe in God or Jesus)
I'm not asking this to be sarcastic or set people up so I can berate them for their answers -- I'm honestly just curious...

You know, when I first saw this thread, one phrase went through my mind. "That is the most stupid question I have ever seen". Then I realised I've made far some equally stupid questions, so I'll give.

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1. Is the BIBLE what turns you off of believing in God, or do you just not LIKE God, did you have a bad experience with a religous finatic, or is it the lack of scientific proof...?

It's not just the Bible. It's the fact that in my school, for three years, year in and year out, I was taught the same freaking thing at the same freaking time. Winter Term it was the Gospels. Easter, it would invariably be the last bit of the Gospels and Acts. Summer it would invariably be Adam and Eve. The stupid Scriptures teacher used the same exercise material and gave us so many freaking Bibles I didn't know what to do with them all.

It's not that either.

Here in the UK, the teaching of Christianity and morning mass worship is enforced by law. All state schools must teach Christianity and hold Mass worship in the mornings, though it is also legal to teach other religions, though the focus must be on Christianity.

It's kinda off-putting to have Christianity shoved down your throat. Not only that, but I'm more of a science person. I love science. God as defined by the religions just doesn't seem to stand up to science. Maybe there really is a God, but I doubt he's anything like the Gods as described in the Bible, Quran, Torah and other holy scriptures.

Basically, my stance is this:

There might be or might not be a God. There is not available emprical evidence, positive or negative, to enable me to say there is or is not a God.

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2. When good things happen, what do you think/feel/do?

Well, the Universe plays dice, you know. Things happen by chance. I'm just grateful that good things happen and live with it.

Even if I did believe in God, I doubt that I'd thank God either. Way I see it, this Universe is hard-wired to be the way it is. If something good happens it has nothing directly to do with God. He just created the system that enabled it to happen.

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3. How do you cope with bad things?

It depends on whether I can do something about it.

If I can, I think, "Oh dear. What can I do to make things better?"

If I can't, I think, "Oh dear, that's a shame." Then I move on.

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4. Do you pray -- to anything? What do you have in place of prayer -- pep talks to yourself, nice thoughts... nothing?

This question needs clarifying, you know. In place of prayer? What is the purpose of prayer? What do you think the purpose of prayer is? I think I have nothing in place, but it all depends on what you think the purpose is.

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5. What are your principles as far as how you treat other people? (and what are they based on?)

Do unto others as you would wish them to do unto you.

You could say that was based on Christ's teachings, but Buddha said pretty much the same things too.

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6. If you're scared about something you can't act on, how do you deal with it? Do you wish, cross fingers, hope, ignore it...?

Wish, cross fingers, hopes and sometimes ignore it.

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7. Is it scary to think that when you die, you just DIE?

It is scary, when I think about it, which is why I try to not think about it. The thought of not-existing really scares me... However, now that you've actually asked me this question and I've actually told someone, the entire concept has somehow lost its sting.

Wow.

I no longer fear the aftermath of death because when you die, you die. If you're not conscious of anything, what is there to worry about? Not-existing can't be uncomfortable. You can't be aware of not existing.

Obviously, I fear death in the sense that I don't want to put myself in unnecessary risk. But I don't think I fear the aftermath of it as much as I used to.

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8. Do you like people (anyone?) who believes in God -- ones of course who are nice about it & don't condemn you...?

Well, thing is, why should I know they believe in God or not? Over here, you can hardly tell. People don't wear their faith on their sleeve. They keep it away to themselves, probably in the assumption that other people also share their faith and that there's no real reason to try to brandish your faith about like some kind of Pride Flag.

There are people out there that I like and they might or might not have believed in God. I never asked. They never told.

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9. What happens if you decide to believe in God "just in case" or "just because"?

Well, currently, I'm taking a more scientific approach to His existence. God as a fictional character certainly exists. God as a real phsyical entity? No idea.

It's best to form your idea of God on what is available and can be proven to be true.

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10. Have you ever tried doing something like -- picturing all the qualities that God would have to have for you to believe in him & like him... and then just go with it?

No, because that would be a lie. If you picture him with qualities that you would like him to have and believe in that, you are believing a lie.

It would be the equivalent of me picturing Hitler as a kindly man whom wasn't anti-semitic and wouldn't harm a fly, then believing he was a good guy. That's just wrong.

This is partially why I don't believe in God, because I have no reason to believe that the holy scriptures are impartial. There is nothing to prove that the qualities attributed to God by these scriptures are the real qualities He has, so to me, believing in God based on the qualities given to him by the Bible is equal to believing in God based on the qualities I would give him.

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Re: What is it LIKE to not believe in God...?

peace_is_good wrote:

1. Is the BIBLE what turns you off of believing in God, or do you just not LIKE God, did you have a bad experience with a religous finatic, or is it the lack of scientific proof...?

This question contains a factual statement that does not apply to me. That statement is that at some point something "turned [me] off of believing in god". Nothing ever turned me off. It's just that about the time I stopped believing in fairytales, Santa Claus, and other things some adults made up for me for some reason, I found that the assumption is neither neccessary nor sufficient for explaining anything about the world of facts, morality, or even spirituality.

peace_is_good wrote:

2. When good things happen, what do you think/feel/do?

I think: Wow, that went real well! I am happy. When the good thing is coming from people, I thank them. If they have no identifiable source, I'm just happy. I feel no urge to identify god as a placeholder and thank him instead.

peace_is_good wrote:

3. How do you cope with bad things?

By thinking about them, talking about it with friends, trying to find a solution, and there is none, by feeling really depressed for a few hours, days, or however long it takes, until the pain goes away.

peace_is_good wrote:

4. Do you pray -- to anything? What do you have in place of prayer -- pep talks to yourself, nice thoughts... nothing?

I don't pray. But playing piano and solving hard intellectual problems both have meditative qualities for me. I do this quite often, and I suppose that if not praying opens a gap in my spiritual life, these activities fill it. But I am not sure that not praying is opening such a gap in the first place.

peace_is_good wrote:

5. What are your principles as far as how you treat other people? (and what are they based on?)

Basically, my principle is the Golden Rule, sufficiently abstracted to respect that other people's tastes may be different than mine. They are based on my instinctive sense of morality.

peace_is_good wrote:

6. If you're scared about something you can't act on, how do you deal with it? Do you wish, cross fingers, hope, ignore it...?

I don't really deal with it.

peace_is_good wrote:

7. Is it scary to think that when you die, you just DIE?

I used to. But after passing out one day, I noticed that not being there isn't so unpleasant after all, so now I'm not scared of being dead anymore. Only of dying. (Yes, I'm a sissy, so sue me Wink

)

peace_is_good wrote:

8. Do you like people (anyone?) who believes in God -- ones of course who are nice about it & don't condemn you...?

I like anyone who hasn't given me a good reason not to. Belief in god is no such reason for me.

peace_is_good wrote:

9. What happens if you decide to believe in God "just in case" or "just because"?

I don't. I don't think I have any sense of control over what I'm believing.

peace_is_good wrote:

10. Have you ever tried doing something like -- picturing all the qualities that God would have to have for you to believe in him & like him... and then just go with it?

No, I didn't. Wishful thinking is not something I see any value in.

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gustavratzenhofer wrote:

Religion is evil.

whatever you do, don't subtract the "li"...

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BBB
What's it like to not believe in God?

Self-satisfaction that I was clever enough to realize that God is a human-created myth.

BBB

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Re: What is it LIKE to not believe in God...?

Thomas wrote:

peace_is_good wrote:
1. Is the BIBLE what turns you off of believing in God, or do you just not LIKE God, did you have a bad experience with a religous finatic, or is it the lack of scientific proof...?

This question contains a factual statement that does not apply to me. That statement is that at some point something "turned [me] off of believing in god". Nothing ever turned me off. It's just that about the time I stopped believing in fairytales, Santa Claus, and other things some adults made up for me for some reason, I found that the assumption is neither neccessary nor sufficient for explaining anything about the world of facts, morality, or even spirituality.

peace_is_good wrote:
2. When good things happen, what do you think/feel/do?

I think: Wow, that went real well! I am happy. When the good thing is coming from people, I thank them. If they have no identifiable source, I'm just happy. I feel no urge to identify god as a placeholder and thank him instead.

peace_is_good wrote:
3. How do you cope with bad things?

By thinking about them, talking about it with friends, trying to find a solution, and there is none, by feeling really depressed for a few hours, days, or however long it takes, until the pain goes away.

peace_is_good wrote:
4. Do you pray -- to anything? What do you have in place of prayer -- pep talks to yourself, nice thoughts... nothing?

I don't pray. But playing piano and solving hard intellectual problems both have meditative qualities for me. I do this quite often, and I suppose that if not praying opens a gap in my spiritual life, these activities fill it. But I am not sure that not praying is opening such a gap in the first place.

peace_is_good wrote:
5. What are your principles as far as how you treat other people? (and what are they based on?)

Basically, my principle is the Golden Rule, sufficiently abstracted to respect that other people's tastes may be different than mine. They are based on my instinctive sense of morality.

peace_is_good wrote:
6. If you're scared about something you can't act on, how do you deal with it? Do you wish, cross fingers, hope, ignore it...?

I don't really deal with it.

peace_is_good wrote:
7. Is it scary to think that when you die, you just DIE?

I used to. But after passing out one day, I noticed that not being there isn't so unpleasant after all, so now I'm not scared of being dead anymore. Only of dying. (Yes, I'm a sissy, so sue me )

peace_is_good wrote:
8. Do you like people (anyone?) who believes in God -- ones of course who are nice about it & don't condemn you...?

I like anyone who hasn't given me a good reason not to. Belief in god is no such reason for me.

peace_is_good wrote:
9. What happens if you decide to believe in God "just in case" or "just because"?

I don't. I don't think I have any sense of control over what I'm believing.

peace_is_good wrote:
10. Have you ever tried doing something like -- picturing all the qualities that God would have to have for you to believe in him & like him... and then just go with it?

No, I didn't. Wishful thinking is not something I see any value in.

Damn...if you had posted this before I posted my response...I coulda saved myself the bother.

I don't mean this as an insult, Thomas....but our responses are almost identical. Twisted Evil

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Great minds think alike (sometimes, on some subjects).

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The idea of god is just ridiculous. That's it. Nothing deeper than that.

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goodfielder wrote:

The idea of god is just ridiculous. That's it. Nothing deeper than that.

So you are certain that the Ultimate REALITY of existence....includes no gods?

You are certain of this?

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Go, Frank

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Frank Apisa wrote:

goodfielder wrote:
The idea of god is just ridiculous. That's it. Nothing deeper than that.

So you are certain that the Ultimate REALITY of existence....includes no gods?

You are certain of this?

Certain in my own mind for my own self and when I think about it that's all I need to know.

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goodfielder wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
goodfielder wrote:
The idea of god is just ridiculous. That's it. Nothing deeper than that.

So you are certain that the Ultimate REALITY of existence....includes no gods?

You are certain of this?

Certain in my own mind for my own self and when I think about it that's all I need to know.

In your original post, you asserted that "the idea of god is just ridiculous."

And...if worded properly, I agree.

It is ridiculous to assert there is a God...or are gods. Doing so supposes that the person doing the assertion KNOWS what the Ultimate REALITY of existence is.

But I consider it just as ridiculous to assert there are no gods...or that the possibility of a God or gods...is zero....for that same reason. It supposes that the person doing the assertion KNOWS what the Ultimate REALITY of existence contains...and does not contain.

I also think it is laughably ridiculous, and more than just a little illogical, to assert, as you just did...

..."...certain (that there are no gods) in my own mind for my own self and when I think about it that's all I need to know."

That was my point...that's it, nothing deeper than that. Twisted Evil

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Having never believed in God (or gods), I can't compare the experience to believing in God (or gods). Frankly, belief in such an entity seems utterly strange and foreign to me. I could better conjecture what it's like to be a woman or to be Inuit...

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patiodog wrote:

Having never believed in God (or gods), I can't compare the experience to believing in God (or gods). Frankly, belief in such an entity seems utterly strange and foreign to me.

Well...since a belief is nothing more than a guess in disguise...I have no problem with what you have said here. You think it utterly strange and foreign to guess there is a God...or are gods.

I think all guesses of this sort...(the kind that get disguised in that wrod "belief") are rather strange and foreign.

I think it strange and foreign for anyone to guess they know enough about the nature of the Ultimate REALITY of existence....so that they can include or exclude any possibilities.

But, Dog, whether or not we think it strange and foreign is not really an issue....nor does it truly impact on the truth of the matter.

The nature of the Ultimate REALTIY...IS whatever it IS.

None of our guesses (or beliefs) have any impact on that....UNLESS the Ultimate nature of REALITY IS....whatever each of us guesses it to be.

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Re: What is it LIKE to not believe in God...?
Im answering before I have finished my coffee, so in my ramblings, I hope I can make sense.

peace_is_good wrote:

1. Is the BIBLE what turns you off of believing in God, or do you just not LIKE God, did you have a bad experience with a religous finatic, or is it the lack of scientific proof...?

I guess there were things that turned me OFF to the concept of god..but for the most part, the concept just never fit with me.
I have read the bible cover to cover 3 times and never once felt like it was an important document and it warranted running my life by its content. Watching people 'translate' the bible ( preachers for example ) always left a bad taste in my mouth. I felt as if people were defrauding the one book they lived by and was supposed to be the word of their god. So who were they to take what THEY think the bible means and tell others THAT is the 'set in stone' moral , concept, or idea of a certain scripture?
Taking that thought farther, I looked into how many versions of the bible there are in existance today ( 13 ) and found so many discrepencies it wasnt funny. Yet.. noone admits this . Each time some one translates the bible into another langauge for someone, they are writting what THEY think it means and how THEY percieve the story to have gone. It is not translated word for word. Over the supposed years this book has been in existance, how can anyone hold to the idea that it is gods word the same to day as it was when it was supposedly written? The human ego is stong. Translating a book is an opening for that ego to step in. People will and DO change what they THINK they are reading into what makes sense to them.
I also came across a bible that was written in the year 1711. A friend of mine in Albq owns it and it was sickening . What could still be read of it that was. Alot of the print was faded but still ledgable. Its story read according to laws at that time. There was a story of how God struck people of color for punishment of thier ancestors behaviors and according to gods law , you were to treat these people as second class citizens. Hmm slavery anyone?
I also came to realize that according to the bible, there was no proof of a god at all until you died. You were supposed to mindlessly believe, swallow 'translated' meanings, and squelch certain human characteristics to be able to be considered for this supposed gods coming. You , as a human being, were supposed to look down on yourself, think of yourself as unworthy, dirty, sinful , and not good enough for a gods love. Dont question the bible because that was the work of the devil.
The bible also says that man was created in his image. So that means as a species we have not changed? Well.. we know that isnt true. We have evolved and changed . Hmm.. his image no more then right?
Gods image is 'human'? But isnt god supposed to be omnipotent? So where did all these human characteristics come into play?
......
That is how my thought process went . It still rambles on and on when I think about christianity . It wasnt a certain person, event, or anything like that for me.
Nothing about it fits. Nothing about it strikes a chord . To ME personally, it sounds like a fairy tale.
That is just my opinion.. I am not in anyway trying to be insulting to anyone. So please dont take it that way.

peace_is_good wrote:

2. When good things happen, what do you think/feel/do?..

as anyone else would do. I feel happy . if it is something I have accomplished, i feel proud of myself and my actions. If someone else has made me happy, i am thankful to that person.. etc.

peace_is_good wrote:

3. How do you cope with bad things?..

Depends on the situation. But I have alot of tools to help myself when things go wrong. I can talk. I can write, if I have to I can defend myself. I can change my reaction/behavior to effect the situation as well. Again, it depends on the situation as to how I cope. Not believing in a god doesnt take away my abilityor my nature to cope, think, or feel .

peace_is_good wrote:

4. Do you pray -- to anything? What do you have in place of prayer -- pep talks to yourself, nice thoughts... nothing?

I dont pray. Every person has pep talks , nice thoughts, and confident words for themselves in the time of stress. Religion has nothing to do with that in my opinion.

peace_is_good wrote:

5. What are your principles as far as how you treat other people? (and what are they based on?)

I dont have a set of rules . I go by how I feel about myself and about my actions. I dont feel good or happy when I hurt someone. There for, it isnt right for me to do it. I dont feel good or happy when someone does something wrong to me. There for it isnt right . My gut dictates my reactions and my behaviors I guess you can say.

peace_is_good wrote:

6. If you're scared about something you can't act on, how do you deal with it? Do you wish, cross fingers, hope, ignore it...??)

A little of all of the above. Depends on the situation. Again, my lack of a belief in a god doesnt take away my human nature. Fear is human nature. So is survival. When you are scared of something you react in what ever way you can to get rid of that fear. Sometimes it is ignorance, sometimes it is fight or flight, sometimes it is to just cross your fingers and turn the other way... many possibilities.

peace_is_good wrote:

7. Is it scary to think that when you die, you just DIE?..?

No.
I think people want and accept the idea of an afterlife so that they can cope with and have answers for what they dont understand ( death).
And, since noone has died and lived to tell about it.. death remains a mystery. And a thing of fear. Imagining an afterlife gives comfort and answers to that fear, but doesnt prove anything. Do we just die? I dunno.. I havent done it yet. ;-)

peace_is_good wrote:

8. Do you like people (anyone?) who believes in God -- ones of course who are nice about it & don't condemn you.?

A persons religious beliefs does not dictate wether or not I enjoy them as a person. I have many friends of diffrent faiths and lots with NO faith. It doesnt matter to me how someone chooses to believe. It matters to me wether or not they use that beliefe to judge ME.. if they do, they are not a person whom I choose to be friends with.
Religion is a private choice and is part of a persons private life.

peace_is_good wrote:

9. What happens if you decide to believe in God "just in case" or "just because"?

I am secure in my person and my choices enough to not have to believe in something.. just in case .

peace_is_good wrote:

10. Have you ever tried doing something like -- picturing all the qualities that God would have to have for you to believe in him & like him... and then just go with it?

One of the things is that it wouldnt be a him ;-)

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Frank Apisa wrote:

goodfielder wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
goodfielder wrote:
The idea of god is just ridiculous. That's it. Nothing deeper than that.

So you are certain that the Ultimate REALITY of existence....includes no gods?

You are certain of this?

Certain in my own mind for my own self and when I think about it that's all I need to know.

In your original post, you asserted that "the idea of god is just ridiculous."

And...if worded properly, I agree.

It is ridiculous to assert there is a God...or are gods. Doing so supposes that the person doing the assertion KNOWS what the Ultimate REALITY of existence is.

But I consider it just as ridiculous to assert there are no gods...or that the possibility of a God or gods...is zero....for that same reason. It supposes that the person doing the assertion KNOWS what the Ultimate REALITY of existence contains...and does not contain.

I also think it is laughably ridiculous, and more than just a little illogical, to assert, as you just did...

..."...certain (that there are no gods) in my own mind for my own self and when I think about it that's all I need to know."

That was my point...that's it, nothing deeper than that.

Then I shall accept your remarks as intended - not intended to be deep at all. :wink:

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goodfielder wrote:

Then I shall accept your remarks as intended - not intended to be deep at all. :wink:

Sounds like a good idea.

In fact, it looks as though we should both head in that direction. Twisted Evil

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I beat you to it.

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goodfielder wrote:

I beat you to it.

If you "beat it"...this is not the place to talk about it.

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Re: What is it LIKE to not believe in God...?

peace_is_good wrote:

(Addressed to people who don't believe in God or Jesus)
I'm not asking this to be sarcastic or set people up so I can berate them for their answers -- I'm honestly just curious...

1. Is the BIBLE what turns you off of believing in God, or do you just not LIKE God, did you have a bad experience with a religous finatic, or is it the lack of scientific proof...?
2. When good things happen, what do you think/feel/do?
3. How do you cope with bad things?
4. Do you pray -- to anything? What do you have in place of prayer -- pep talks to yourself, nice thoughts... nothing?
5. What are your principles as far as how you treat other people? (and what are they based on?)
6. If you're scared about something you can't act on, how do you deal with it? Do you wish, cross fingers, hope, ignore it...?
7. Is it scary to think that when you die, you just DIE?
8. Do you like people (anyone?) who believes in God -- ones of course who are nice about it & don't condemn you...?
9. What happens if you decide to believe in God "just in case" or "just because"?
10. Have you ever tried doing something like -- picturing all the qualities that God would have to have for you to believe in him & like him... and then just go with it?

1. I don't believe in the God of the Bible or in virgin births and disappearing dead bodies, but I do believe in the inherent Goodness of people and the teachings of Jesus, particularly those from the Gospel of Thomas which, not surprisingly, was left out of the Canonical Gospels during the Council of Nicea.

2. Good things happening is a natural part of life, so are bad things. They aren't blessings or curses from God. They just are.

3. Depends on the bad thing. I try to look at both sides of things and see them from more than one perspective.

4. Yes, but not to God. I believe in lasting spirit and in times of trouble I have deep, albeit one-sided, conversations with my mother who passed away a number of years ago. Old habits die hard.

5. All major religions have their own version of The Golden Rule. So do nonreligious societies that thrive. I try to live by it too.

6. The spirit of Mom comes in handy here too.

7. No, the spirit of J will remain for my children, as will the spirit of my mother, and her's before her. I will no longer be here to guide, but my presence will live on. Aren't we all the collection of our ancestors? We will live on in our progeny.

8. I like everyone, until they've given me reason not to by their actions, not by their beliefs.

9. What happens? Who knows? No one knows Truth, only truth as they see it.

10. Believing in a Supreme Being just for grins has never even entered my mind.

My beliefs and way of life are very nicely summed up in the seven principles of UU:

* The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
* Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
* Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
* A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
* The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
* The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
* Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

The living tradition which we share draws from many sources:

* Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life;
* Words and deeds of prophetic women and men which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love;
* Wisdom from the world's religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life;
* Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God's love by loving our neighbors as ourselves;
* Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the mind and spirit.
* Spiritual teachings of earth-centered traditions which celebrate the sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature.

Thanks for asking!

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Frank Apisa wrote:

goodfielder wrote:
I beat you to it.

If you "beat it"...this is not the place to talk about it.

No?

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What is it LIKE to not believe in God...?

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