18
   

Putin's war

 
 
glitterbag
 
  1  
Sat 26 Feb, 2022 09:38 pm
harumph
coluber2001
 
  3  
Sat 26 Feb, 2022 10:19 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

I can’t decide what I’m more fascinated by—how this guy discovered his info or how you found this guy.

I found him on YouTube. To look at him you'd think he'd be a right winger, but it's just the opposite. He is really sharp, but I don't know where he gets his information. However he does hold out hope for the Ukrainians who otherwise seem overwhelmed.
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 26 Feb, 2022 10:40 pm
@coluber2001,
I thought he was a Trumpie, too, so I turned off the first vid after only a few sentences.

Looks are definitely deceiving. I’ve got to check out more.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  3  
Sun 27 Feb, 2022 03:14 am
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

harumph


Genius. You captured the essence of the (latest) sniffy harangue in a single word. I tip my hat.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  5  
Sun 27 Feb, 2022 05:12 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
It is also a bit amusing to observe a dedicated consumer of AGW zealotry...

AGW is well-established – there's a big difference between predictions based on scientific observation and making armchair guesses about what our society will look like in the future. Making economic predictions ten years in advance is a hardly the same as tracking rising temperatures around the globe. That's because of political volatility, cultural changes, and, most importantly, things which appear out of nowhere and upset the expected trajectory of events. Such as a global pandemic, a political upheaval, or a severe natural disaster.
Quote:
Then, suddenly when confronted with arguments he can't deal with, assert that no one can predict political or economic events even 10 years into the future!

There's nothing "sudden" about any of your arguments, georgeob1. That's what I've been telling you – you lay out the same line every time. You're just reading from a script. And I'll say it again, you don't know what the economic/political situation will be ten years from now. No one does.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  7  
Sun 27 Feb, 2022 06:37 am
The EU expects millions of refugees from Ukraine. Deutsche Bahn (national/largest railway company of Germany) will let these people travel free of charge from Poland to Germany. Instead of a ticket, a Ukrainian passport is sufficient.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Sun 27 Feb, 2022 06:54 am
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2022-02-26/volodymyr-zelensky-ukraine-invasion-george-washington-vladimir-putin?_amp=true

Is Zelensky Ukraine’s George Washington?

Guess someone else felt the Revolutionary War analogy.
hightor
 
  2  
Sun 27 Feb, 2022 06:55 am
A Second Trump Term Would Not Have Stopped Putin From Invading Ukraine

Quote:
Several prominent Republicans are currently claiming that, were Donald Trump still president, Russia would have never dared to invade Ukraine. Not only does this sort of talk needlessly turn our foreign policy into a partisan issue, it is also resting on assertions that are offensively disconnected from reality.

The core of this contention rests on the idea that Trump was a strong leader who Russian President Vladimir Putin would have never dared crossed. The notion that Trump would have shown so much strength as to have deterred Russian aggression requires that we forget both who Trump is and what he did as president. Even a cursory look at these two things will yield ample evidence which suggests that the former president would have been neither capable nor willing to do anything to stop Ukraine's invasion.

The only conceivable reason Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine under a second Trump term is that it very likely wouldn't have been necessary—with such an obsequious president who was seemingly hellbent on undermining or even withdrawing the U.S. entirely from NATO. This defense alliance, initially created to curb the expansion of the Soviet Union further into Europe, has remained the bane of Russia's existence as it has expanded east in recent years. Every time NATO adds former members of the old Soviet Union, the influence of Russia is further diminished.

Putin's decision to invade Ukraine therefore rests, in no small part, on the fear that Ukraine could join said alliance and annihilate its long standing hold over Eastern Europe. Trump was, at best, outwardly indifferent to Ukraine joining NATO. President Joe Biden, on the other hand, openly told Ukraine not even three months ago that membership was essentially theirs for the taking. If anything, it is precisely because Biden took this stronger stance that cuts against Russian interests that Putin felt he had no choice but to take Ukraine by force now, before it enjoyed a powerful shield of protection from the United States and Western Europe.

Let's also remember when Trump threw his own intelligence agencies under the bus in Helsinki in a servile gesture to the Russian dictator and has never passed up an occasion to speak flattering words of him. Trump's infatuation with Putin continues even today, exemplified by his latest statement that called Putin's initial illegal invasion into Ukraine "genius." This is anything but the talk of someone who we can have expected to take a strong stance against the ruthless Russian dictator. If anything, it's the sort of talk that would now leave our NATO allies in Eastern Europe questioning whether the U.S. would defend them if Russia decided to take back even more territory from its former Soviet satellites.

Least we forget, we indisputably know that Trump held up military aid to Ukraine as he sought to extort the president thereof into kickstarting an investigation into President Biden's son. In point of fact, it's the reason Trump was impeached, for his first time. Ukraine, like most everything else in Trump's life, was never more than a tool to further his own interests.

Relatedly, we must consider that defending Ukraine with sanctions today requires that Americans accept some level of discomfort, largely in the form of higher gas prices in the near term. This sort of economic hardship has direct implications on a president's popularity, meaning they too will pay a cost for standing strong against Russian aggression. It is nigh inconceivable that Trump would have ever considered expending personal political capital on such an endeavor, particularly when said policy would need to be taken so close in time to a midterm election.

The only way to believe Trump would have been strong enough to deter Putin from invading Ukraine is to bat an eye to reality. For those of us with open eyes, we can plainly see the ridiculous nature of such assertions.

newsweek
engineer
 
  3  
Sun 27 Feb, 2022 07:06 am
Interesting article on how Ukraine defenders have challenged Russia and their plans for a quick, decisive attack.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/26/how-ukrainian-defiance-has-derailed-putins-plans

This video of a destroyed Russian column is going around. https://mobile.twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1497573395508174856
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Sun 27 Feb, 2022 07:13 am
@Lash,
Zelensky doesn't own any slaves.
engineer
 
  4  
Sun 27 Feb, 2022 07:27 am
@izzythepush,
That's a sharp observation. A lot of the drive for the revolutionary war was the fear that slavery was going to be abolished. Zelensky is risking his life with no clear ulterior motive other than patriotism. You could say his life is in danger if the Russians catch him, but he has been offered safe haven in other countries. He could flee if he wanted. I doubt you could say it's for glory since it still looks like he is not on the winning side and he will likely end up dead. I would say the comparison to Washington is generous to Washington.
Lash
 
  0  
Sun 27 Feb, 2022 07:30 am
A puff piece, but I’m reading most of what I find. This seems to be a huge defining global moment.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/26/opinions/zelensky-courage-ukraine-russia-parini/index.html

President Zelensky is a profile in courage
Opinion by Jay Parini

Updated 8:51 PM ET, Sat February 26, 2022
Zelensky posts video in the streets of Kyiv

Lash
 
  -1  
Sun 27 Feb, 2022 07:32 am
@engineer,
I don’t think the comparison is about their political motivations, but how they gave embattled people clarity and a leader.
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Sun 27 Feb, 2022 07:34 am



The Ukrainian Chorus Dumka of New York performs Prayer for Ukraine


0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Sun 27 Feb, 2022 07:39 am
@Lash,
Quote:
A puff piece, but I’m reading most of what I find.

It's hard not to get sucked in by these pieces. Especially not knowing what tomorrow will bring.

Russia Will Never Win. Why this plan is doomed to fail.

Putin fumes in his mountain ‘lair’ as Ukraine proves hard to conquer

Japan joins U.S., others in excluding Russia from SWIFT system
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sun 27 Feb, 2022 08:02 am
Ukraine has agreed to peace negotiations with Russia. A Russian and a Ukrainian delegation would meet at the Ukrainian-Belarusian border, the office of Ukrainian President Selenskyj announced on Sunday. There were no conditions.

And Putin is putting the country's nuclear forces on alert. He ordered this because of the aggressive behaviour of Nato and the economic sanctions imposed on the Russian military leadership, Putin said on television on Sunday.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Sun 27 Feb, 2022 08:11 am
This goes with Walter’s previous post. Friends and family are spamming me with this Putin quote. It should be taken extremely seriously.

Putin: "Western countries are not only taking
hostile economic steps against our country, but
also the leaders of major NATO countries are
making aggressive statements about our
country. That's why I order Russia to switch its
deterrent forces to a special mission regime.

_____________________

“…Special mission regime…”
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sun 27 Feb, 2022 08:23 am
@engineer,
When someone makes a false analogy and refuse to back down they become a hostage to fortune.

Over here people are comparing him to Churchill, so it looks like everyone is trying to get a bit of Zelensky for themselves.
engineer
 
  5  
Sun 27 Feb, 2022 11:06 am
@izzythepush,
I'm starting to think Putin really miscalculated here. It looks like he expected to roll into the capitol without a lot of problems and the country would just fold while the International Community looked on. Now he's getting a tough response from Ukraine and a very coordinated response from the International Community. Also, lots of credit to Biden and Johnson, this is the most coordinated diplomatic response I've seen in a long time. I read in the Guardian that Johnson has been instrumental in getting Germany to go all in, including sending arms. Biden's approach of revealing intel ahead of the invasion now looks nothing short of brilliant. He's completely cut the Russian propaganda machine off at the knees, preventing their misinformation from getting traction.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 27 Feb, 2022 11:43 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
I read in the Guardian that Johnson has been instrumental in getting Germany to go all in, including sending arms.
We have a coalition government of Social Democrats, Greens and Liberals.
The end of ifs and buts, as well as the politics of hesitant little steps only ended today with the votes in the Bundestag (parliament), only the Left and AfD groups voted against.

This policy change is indeed a historic turnaround for Germany.
Basically, Germany's entire foreign and defence policy has turned around 180 degrees today.
 

 
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