18
   

Putin's war

 
 
Albuquerque
 
  -1  
Wed 6 Apr, 2022 05:25 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
You do realize you are going on a tangent here I am not interested on Mr Cohen political views, personally I think Neo-liberalism has its days numbered very very soon due to the AI progress in the last decade, but again a tangent, not my point...what interested me on those videos was the number of factoids on the NATO expansion the policies of Washington towards Russia and Ukraine and confirmation of my own thought process on the matter as I dislike monologues on media...you see I found him after I thought about the matter with my little own gray matter not before...I don't go through the tune of influencers and I like to listen to two sides of a story, maybe half a dozen if I can, before I come to have an opinion that I trust. I also like to do hard questions even if they go against my "tribe" own interests as I aspire to an holistic view of the ecosystem not a black and white Disney novel or a Marvel superhero pastiche for supper...
What I found on mainstream media everywhere on a existential problem as the one we are going through right now for the West with consequences for the entire XXI century and beyond is a joke and it no longer represents the world in which I was raised with analytical investigative journalism with several angles and acute review on History facts.
Our Western so called "Democracies" are as dead as a dead can be, a bad joke controlled by a 100 Oligarchs in the world that could fit a single school Bus no more...everything else is pasture and grazing in a zombie dementia that literally leaves my speechless jaw dropped and gazing at our own failed species demise!
bobsal u1553115
 
  4  
Wed 6 Apr, 2022 06:12 pm
@Albuquerque,
I'm the One on a tangent???

Read your post again. All sorts of opinions about where the planet is. You know: unfounded, over stated, without documentation - I know because I read your ****. I watch your ****. And I research your ****. A courtesy you never perform for us.

When you come up with something that resembles a documented point and argument, we'll talk again. Maybe.

By the way, have you figured out who's behind 'Defense Updates', yet? Or what point you were trying draw out. Demonstrating one's point a great skill to have and you need to work at it.
Albuquerque
 
  -2  
Wed 6 Apr, 2022 09:41 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
What fact are you disputing?

That NATO did not expand East?

That Russia asked to get in at NATO?

That Russia asked to get in the EU?

That we would be better off with Russia in West then Russia with the East?

That the US would never have anything Russian close to its territory or frontiers but thinks it is fine to push on the opposite direction without consequences?

That Russia bankrupted or not has 6000 Nukes and should not be humiliated by sheer common sense?

That Ukrainians were mislead to believe Putin wouldn't dare or if he did things would go OK because Murikans don't understand Russian soul and project their own money above all God into other cultures to make tactical decisions that are ruinous?

You see the problem with you guys is getting stuck at "sources" instead of getting stuck with reason no matter where it comes from. You bypass facts, and favour popularity, typical technocrat anti intellectual modus operandi!

And please I know its an American adage to put **** and F**u in every sentence when things don't go your way but we Europeans don't like it so could you spare us your language, much appreciated!
bobsal u1553115
 
  4  
Wed 6 Apr, 2022 09:51 pm
@Albuquerque,
Most of what you list may be true. They just don't mean a thing past stating them.

Why don't YOU state what you think they add up to. Russia doesn't want a NATO nation next to them? There's seven or so of them right now. And so what?

**** your effete, supercious, aledgedly "European" attitudes about anything.

Until you explain what organization is hiding behind
Albuquerque
 
  -2  
Wed 6 Apr, 2022 09:54 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
So what?

What is that you are looking for? Terrorism in Europe sponsored by Russia?

Nuclear Weapons in Iran?

Poisoning of American and European leaders because now its fair game?

What part of this is beyond stupid are you not getting here?
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Wed 6 Apr, 2022 10:00 pm
@Albuquerque,
I'm looking for what your point is, like who's behind 'Defense Updates', and what the video was supposed to prove.
Albuquerque
 
  -3  
Wed 6 Apr, 2022 10:01 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
My point??? Read above, again!
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  3  
Wed 6 Apr, 2022 10:34 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Everywhere where Russian troops retreated, there were masses of traces of robbery and plundering. Some soldiers send the stolen goods to their relatives back home.

What this reveals about the state of the army?


That they are greedy soul-less vipers jubilating in the opportunity to kill people who've no weapons and pose no threat..................then they can loot them of everything of value and ship it back to the other soul-less worshipers of Putin so they can all revel in the stolen stuff they brought back. Hooray for the thieves, the bastards.
roger
 
  4  
Wed 6 Apr, 2022 10:49 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

That they are greedy soul-less vipers jubilating in the opportunity to kill people who've no weapons and pose no threat..................then they can loot them of everything of value and ship it back to the other soul-less worshipers of Putin so they can all revel in the stolen stuff they brought back. Hooray for the thieves, the bastards.

Except when they are poor, helpless conscripts wanting nothing but to be back home with their families.
glitterbag
 
  3  
Wed 6 Apr, 2022 11:46 pm
@roger,
That's always a possibility, unfortunately they are armed and killing other people almost as sport. I'm sorry if they are poor, they are obviously believing they are searching for Nazi's....but they are cutting a huge dent in Ukraine and killing people even when they know they are not Nazi's....just in the way, and maybe they have neat stuff in their dwellings they can send back home.

It's dreadful, look to the leadership and the thieving qua-trillionaires who have robbed Russia of every penny they could get their hands on and that explains the meager dollops of funds made available to the forces.
roger
 
  3  
Thu 7 Apr, 2022 01:07 am
@glitterbag,
Well, yeah. Could be some of each, too.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Thu 7 Apr, 2022 04:49 am
Possible Evidence of Russian Atrocities
German Intelligence Intercepts Radio Traffic Discussing the Murder of Civilians in Bucha
Quote:
DER SPIEGEL has learned that German intelligence intercepted radio traffic from the Russian military regarding the murder of civilians in Bucha. It appears that such atrocities were part of the plan.

The Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), Germany’s foreign intelligence service, has acquired gruesome new insights into the atrocities committed by Russian military forces in the town of Bucha near the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv. DER SPIEGEL has learned that the BND intercepted Russian military radio traffic in which the murder of civilians in Bucha was discussed. Some of the intercepted radio traffic can apparently be directly linked to dead bodies that have been photographed in Bucha.

Following the withdrawal of the Russian military from the town over the weekend, a mass grave was discovered as well as the bodies of several dozen dead civilians left lying on the streets. The hands of some of the victims had been tied, while other bodies showed signs of torture. Numerous women and children are also reportedly among the victims.

The Russian government has vehemently denied that Russian forces are responsible for these war crimes. Several – completely unsubstantiated – claims have been made that the alleged war crimes have been staged by Ukraine. Those claims, however, are contradicted by the statements of numerous witnesses interviewed by reporters from DER SPIEGEL and other news outlets in the town of Bucha.

The intercepted comments now appear to completely refute Russia’s denials. DER SPIEGEL has learned that the BND briefed parliamentarians on Wednesday about its findings. Some of the intercepted traffic apparently matches the locations of bodies found along the main road through town. In one of them, a soldier apparently told another that they had just shot a person on a bicycle. That corresponds to the photo of the dead body lying next to a bicycle that has been shared around the world. In another intercepted conversation, a man apparently said: First you interrogate soldiers, then you shoot them.

Part of the Plan?
The BND material also apparently provides evidence that members of the Russian mercenary unit called the Wagner Group played a leading role in the atrocities. The group is known to have perpetrated similar atrocities in Syria.

Eyewitnesses recently reported that the occupying force in Bucha was initially made up of "young soldiers." Once they were replaced by other units, the witnesses said, the attacks on civilians grew more frequent. Some eyewitnesses have said that Chechen units were in the town. The accounts raise the question as to whether this progression was part of the occupation plan.

The radio traffic intercepted by the BND makes it seem as though the atrocities perpetrated on civilians in Bucha were neither random acts nor the product of individual soldiers who got out of hand. Rather, say sources familiar with the audio, the material suggests that the troops spoke of the atrocities as though they were simply discussing their everyday lives.

That, say sources familiar with the audio, indicates that the murder of civilians has become a standard element of Russian military activity, potentially even part of a broader strategy. The intention is that of spreading fear among the civilian population and thus reducing the will to resist.

DER SPIEGEL has learned that more intercepted radio traffic is currently being analyzed, though it is apparently difficult to precisely localize some of the audio. Some of the recordings apparently indicate that incidents such as those in Bucha have also taken place elsewhere. There are reportedly indications of potential atrocities in the area surrounding Mariupol, the large city in southern Ukraine that has been besieged by the Russian military.


bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2022 06:27 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Beat me to it, Walter!
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2022 06:45 am
Ukraine Live Updates: Western Allies Move to Further Isolate Russia Over Atrocities

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/04/07/world/ukraine-russia-war-news

Leaders are seeking to increasingly punish Russia and help Ukraine, with the E.U. weighing a ban on Russian coal, NATO meeting to discuss military aid and the U.N. voting on expelling Russia from the Human Rights Council.
ImageA column of Ukrainian armored vehicles moved through the recently liberated town of Bucha on Wednesday.

Megan Specia, Cora Engelbrecht and Shashank Bengali
Here are the latest developments in the war in Ukraine.

Western allies on Thursday were hammering out new steps to further isolate Russia and bolster Ukraine’s military in anticipation of an intensified Russian onslaught in the east, where officials warned civilians that they faced their “last chance to leave” as Moscow amassed more troops along the border.

NATO foreign ministers were meeting in Brussels to discuss expanding military aid to Ukraine, and the European Union was expected to approve a ban on Russian coal, a significant step for a bloc that is heavily dependent on Russian fossil fuels.

Still, despite mounting evidence of atrocities in President Vladimir V. Putin’s six-week-old war, there were signs that further sanctions were testing Europe’s unity against Russia, as Germany and other countries pushed for a monthslong delay in enforcement of the coal ban, and Hungary broke ranks with the bloc by saying it was prepared to pay for Russian energy imports in rubles, as Mr. Putin has demanded.

The discovery of dozens of bodies in the northern town of Bucha after Russian forces retreated has spurred Western allies to provide more weapons to Ukraine and to increasingly isolate Russia, with several European nations expelling Russian diplomats this week. The Senate on Wednesday night voted to authorize President Biden to use a lend-lease program, last used in World War II, to speed up the delivery of military equipment to Ukraine.

In other major developments:

With thousands of people having fled eastern Ukraine in fear of Russia’s escalating its attacks, President Volodymyr Zelensky warned in an overnight address that Russian forces had begun to accumulate fighters “to realize their ill ambitions” in the Luhansk and Donetsk regions, where analysts say Moscow has escalated its offensive but is making only slow progress. On Wednesday, at least two people were killed in a Russian attack on a humanitarian aid site in Donetsk, a local official said.

More than 5,000 people have died in the southeastern city of Mariupol since the start of Russia’s invasion, according to the city’s mayor, Vadym Boichenko, who said Moscow’s forces have destroyed almost all the city’s infrastructure, including a children’s hospital where “almost 50 were burned alive.” The figures could not be independently confirmed.

The United Nations is set to vote on Thursday to suspend Russia from its Human Rights Council over accusations of “systemic violations and abuses of human rights” committed by its troops in Ukraine. The move was put forward by the United States after the killings in Bucha.

The House voted overwhelmingly on Wednesday night to call for an investigation of war crimes committed during Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Six House Republicans voted against the measure.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2022 07:04 am
https://image.politicalcartoons.com/261795/600/never-again.png
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2022 07:05 am
https://i.imgur.com/3gFHG7N.jpg
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2022 07:06 am
https://i.imgur.com/BgQFR7c.jpg
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Thu 7 Apr, 2022 07:37 am
@Albuquerque,
You asked –

Quote:
What fact are you disputing?


– and supplied a list of pertinent questions.

Here's a question for you:

Are you disputing that the people and leaders in the former Soviet satellite states supported their countries joining NATO because they feared Russian influence and possibly military action against them?

Fred Kaplan wrote:
And so the pattern was set for the next decade: NATO expanded, first into the former East Germany, then beyond; Gorbachev—and later Boris Yeltsin, the president of the Russian Federation after the USSR’s implosion in 1991—put up a fuss; the US, Germany, and the IMF sent Moscow billions of dollars to quell his protests (though much of the money disappeared, as the elites controlling Russia’s government shifted it to foreign bank accounts). When President Clinton told Yeltsin that Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania—the three Baltic states that had once been Soviet republics—would join NATO at some point, Yeltsin begged him not to pile on such deep humiliation. Clinton held out the bribe of Russian membership in several Western institutions, including the prestigious Group of Seven, consisting of the most powerful industrial democracies. Yeltsin caved; he had no alternative. (Russia was expelled from the G-8, turning it back into the G-7, in 2014, as punishment for annexing Crimea.)

All this said, it is crucial to note that the campaign to expand NATO was not simply a power play by the West’s cold war victors. The most excited advocates of enlargement were the leaders (and to a great degree the populations) of the Central and Eastern European states, who were eager to throw off the Kremlin’s yoke and join the West. To some, this was a matter of principle; to others, it posed an irresistible opportunity to get on the winning side. Either way, neutrality was not an attractive option. The Czech novelist Milan Kundera once defined a small country as “one which knew it could disappear at any moment,” and if the leaders of these newly independent states hadn’t read Kundera, they’d witnessed enough modern history firsthand to draw the same lesson.

nyrb
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Thu 7 Apr, 2022 08:16 am
Less than a week after Russian atrocities in Butsha, Ukraine, came to light, evidence of further war crimes is mounting. The human rights organization Amnesty International has compiled a large amount of further evidence with reference to Ukrainian eyewitnesses.
According to the organisation, Russian troops repeatedly shot unarmed people in their homes and in the streets. The Amnesty report also documents further rapes.

Russian forces extrajudicially executing civilians in apparent war crimes – new testimony
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Thu 7 Apr, 2022 09:29 am
0 Replies
 
 

 
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