18
   

Putin's war

 
 
hightor
 
  2  
Wed 16 Mar, 2022 01:46 pm
Vladimir Putin Has Fallen Into the Dictator Trap

Reality doesn’t conform to the theory of the rational, calculating despot who can play the long game.

Quote:
In the span of a couple of weeks, Vladimir Putin—a man recently described by Donald Trump as a strategic “genius”—managed to revitalize NATO, unify a splintered West, turn Ukraine’s little-known president into a global hero, wreck Russia’s economy, and solidify his legacy as a murderous war criminal.

How did he miscalculate so badly?

To answer that question, you have to understand the power and information ecosystems around dictators. I’ve studied and interviewed despots across the globe for more than a decade. In my research, I’ve persistently encountered a stubborn myth—of the savvy strongman, the rational, calculating despot who can play the long game because he (and it’s typically a he) doesn’t have to worry about pesky polls or angry voters. Our elected leaders, this view suggests, are no match for the tyrant who gazes into the next decade rather than fretting about next year’s election.

Reality doesn’t conform to that rosy theory.

Autocrats such as Putin eventually succumb to what may be called the “dictator trap.” The strategies they use to stay in power tend to trigger their eventual downfall. Rather than being long-term planners, many make catastrophic short-term errors—the kinds of errors that would likely have been avoided in democratic systems. They hear only from sycophants, and get bad advice. They misunderstand their population. They don’t see threats coming until it’s too late. And unlike elected leaders who leave office to riches, book tours, and the glitzy lifestyle of a statesman, many dictators who miscalculate leave office in a casket, a possibility that makes them even more likely to double down.

Despots sow the seeds of their own demise early on, when they first face the trade-off between allowing freedom of expression and maintaining an iron grip on power. After arriving in the palace, crushing dissent and jailing opponents is often rational, from the perspective of a dictator: It creates a culture of fear that is useful for establishing and maintaining control. But that culture of fear comes with a cost.

For those of us living in liberal democracies, criticizing the boss is risky, but we’re not going to be shipped off to a gulag or watch our family get tortured. In authoritarian regimes, those all-too-real risks have a way of focusing the mind. Is it ever worthwhile for authoritarian advisers to speak truth to power?

As a result, despots rarely get told that their stupid ideas are stupid, or that their ill-conceived wars are likely to be catastrophic. Offering honest criticism is a deadly game and most advisers avoid doing so. Those who dare to gamble eventually lose and are purged. So over time, the advisers who remain are usually yes-men who act like bobbleheads, nodding along when the despot outlines some crackpot scheme.

Even with such seemingly loyal cronies, despots face a dilemma. How can you trust the loyalty of an entourage that has every reason to lie and conceal its true thoughts? The ancient Greek philosopher Xenophon wrote of that inescapable paradox of tyranny: “It is never possible for the tyrant to trust that he is loved … and plots against tyrants spring from none more than from those who pretend to love them most.”

To solve this problem, despots create loyalty tests, ghoulish charades to separate true believers from pretenders. To be trusted, advisers must lie on behalf of the regime. Those who repeat absurd claims without blinking are deemed loyal. Anyone who hesitates is considered suspect.

In Kim Jong Un’s North Korea, for example, the lies have gotten progressively more ridiculous. Once a lie becomes widely accepted, the value of that individual loyalty test declines. Once everyone knows that Kim Jong Un learned to drive when he was just 3 years old, a new, more extreme lie must emerge for the test to serve its purpose. The cycle repeats itself, and a cult of personality is born.

Plenty of people around Putin understood that dynamic, which is why they were willing to parrot Putin’s outlandish claim that the Jewish president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, is presiding over a “neo-Nazi” state. (Such mythmaking can happen in democracies too, if you have an authoritarian-style leader. Just consider how many Republicans have fallen over one another to endorse Donald Trump’s lies about the 2020 election in order to prove their MAGA bona fides.)

But to stay in power, despots have to worry about more than just their advisers and cronies. They have to win over, intimidate, or coerce their population too. That’s why dictators invest in state-sponsored media. In Russia, the state goes so far as to present fake presidential candidates who pretend to oppose Putin in rigged elections. The whole system is a Potemkin village, an illusion of choice and political debate.

Again, that mechanism of control comes with a cost. Some citizens brainwashed by state propaganda will support a war that is sure to backfire. Others privately oppose the regime, but will be too afraid to say anything. As a result, reliable polling doesn’t exist in autocracies. (Russia is no exception.) That means that despots like Putin are unable to accurately understand the attitudes of their own people.

If you live in a fake world long enough, it can start to feel real. Dictators and despots begin to believe their own lies, repeated back at them and propagated by state-controlled media. That might help explain why Putin’s recent speeches have stood out as unhinged rants. It’s certainly possible that his mind has succumbed to his own propaganda, creating a warped worldview in which the invasion of Ukraine was, as Trump put it, an incredibly “savvy” move.

atlantic
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 16 Mar, 2022 02:06 pm
UN international court of justice orders Russia to halt invasion of Ukraine
Quote:
The UN’s International Court of Justice (ICJ) in The Hague has ordered Russia to halt its invasion of Ukraine, saying the court had not seen any evidence to support the Kremlin’s justification for the war, that Ukraine was committing genocide against Russian-speakers in the east of the country.

The court ruled by 13 votes to two for a provisional order that “the Russian Federation shall immediately suspend military operations that it commenced on 24 February 2022 in the territory of Ukraine”. Only the Russian and Chinese judges on the court voted against the order.


International Court of Justice: Order Ukraine vs Russian Federation
Mame
 
  2  
Wed 16 Mar, 2022 02:08 pm
@hightor,
Great article. It's just a matter of how and when he and others (Xi, Jung Un) fall.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Wed 16 Mar, 2022 02:14 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

UN international court of justice orders Russia to halt invasion of Ukraine
Quote:
The UN’s International Court of Justice (ICJ) in The Hague has ordered Russia to halt its invasion of Ukraine, saying the court had not seen any evidence to support the Kremlin’s justification for the war, that Ukraine was committing genocide against Russian-speakers in the east of the country.

The court ruled by 13 votes to two for a provisional order that “the Russian Federation shall immediately suspend military operations
that it commenced on 24 February 2022 in the territory of Ukraine”. Only the Russian and Chinese judges on the court voted against the order.


International Court of Justice: Order Ukraine vs Russian Federation


What effect does this “order” have, in tangible terms, on Putin’s offensive?
izzythepush
 
  2  
Wed 16 Mar, 2022 02:19 pm
@snood,
It helps to further isolate, all future attacks are legally barred by a court that Russia has signed up to.

In the short term I don't imagine it will do a great deal, but long term it could count for a great deal. It will be increasingly harder to do things internationally with Putin in charge.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  2  
Wed 16 Mar, 2022 02:22 pm
@snood,
Putin isn't in the least concerned about the rest of the world and our puny opinions. None of us should be surprised by the arrogance of the Russian leader.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Wed 16 Mar, 2022 02:31 pm
@glitterbag,
He might relent just long enough to get his oligarchs back in line or defenestrated.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  -2  
Wed 16 Mar, 2022 02:39 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
You mean Tulsi Gabtard spreading disinformation for Putin.


You mean, anyone not parroting the preferred narrative, is in bed with Putin?

This was posted last week. I guess your stance is to ignore evidence now?


Quote:
On Tuesday, the US government’s Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland testified before a Senate Foreign Relation Committee hearing on Ukraine in Washington, DC, and said that the United States was working with Ukraine to prevent invading Russian forces from seizing biological research material. The State Department also stated that it was concerned that Russian forces are trying to gain control of biological research facilities within Ukraine. The committee was set to examine Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the worldwide response.

At the hearing, State Department official Victoria Nuland was asked whether Ukraine has bioweapons. “Ukraine has biological research facilities, which in fact we are now quite concerned Russian troops, Russian forces, may be seeking to gain control of”, she stated to the US lawmakers on March 8. “We are working with the Ukrainians on how they can prevent any of those research materials from falling into the hands of Russian forces should they approach”, she added.


Video of the admission at the source.

source
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Wed 16 Mar, 2022 02:50 pm
@Builder,
Don't you ever feel the slightest twinge of dishonesty when you post your lying lies?

https://www.snopes.com/ap/2022/03/11/russias-bioweapon-conspiracy-theory-finds-support-in-us/

Russia’s Bioweapon Conspiracy Theory Finds Support in US
Russia's baseless claims about secret American biological warfare labs in Ukraine are taking root in the U.S. too.

Associated Press

Published 11 March 2022

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Russian Ambassador to the United Nations Vasily Nebenzya speaks during a Security Council meeting, Friday, March 11, 2022, at UN headquarters. The Russian request for the Security Council meeting followed a U.S. rejection of Russian accusations that Ukraine is operating chemical and biological labs with U.S. support. (UNTV via AP)
Image via AP Photo/Uncredited

Russia’s baseless claims about secret American biological warfare labs in Ukraine are taking root in the U.S. too, uniting COVID-19 conspiracy theorists, QAnon adherents and some supporters of ex-President Donald Trump.

Despite rebuttals from independent scientists, Ukrainian leaders and officials at the White House and Pentagon, the online popularity of the claims suggests some Americans are willing to trust Kremlin propaganda over the U.S. media and government.

Like any effective conspiracy theory, the Russian claim relies on some truths: Ukraine does maintain a network of biological labs dedicated to research into pathogens, and those labs have received funding and research support from the U.S.

But the labs are owned and operated by Ukraine, and the work is not secret. It’s part of an initiative called the Biological Threat Reduction Program that aims to reduce the likelihood of deadly outbreaks, whether natural or manmade. The U.S. efforts date back to work in the 1990s to dismantle the former Soviet Union’s program for weapons of mass destruction.

“The labs are not secret,” said Filippa Lentzos, a senior lecturer in science and international security at King’s College London, in an email to the Associated Press. “They are not being used in relation to bioweapons. This is all disinformation.”

That hasn’t stopped the claim from being embraced by some on the far-right, by Fox News hosts, and by groups that push debunked claims that COVID-19 is a bioweapon created by the U.S.

The day of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, an early version appeared on Twitter — in a thread espousing the idea that Russia’s offensive was targeting “US biolabs in Ukraine” — and was soon amplified by the conspiracy theory website Infowars. It has spread across mainstream and lower-profile social platforms, including Telegram and Gab, that are popular with far-right Americans, COVID-19 conspiracy theorists and adherents of QAnon, the baseless hoax that Satan-worshipping pedophiles secretly shape world events.

Many of the accounts posting the claim are citing Russian propaganda outlets as sources. When Kremlin officials repeated the conspiracy theory on Thursday, saying the U.S. was developing bioweapons that target specific ethnicities, it took a few minutes for their quotes to show up on American social media.

Several Telegram users who cited the comments said they trusted Russian propaganda over independent American journalists, or their own democratically elected officials.

“Can’t believe anything our government says!” one poster wrote.

Others cited the claim while parroting Russia’s talking points about the invasion.

“It’s not a “war,” it’s a much needed cleansing,” wrote a member of a Telegram group called “Patriot Voices” that is popular with supporters of Trump. “Ukraine has a ton of US govt funded BioWeapons Labs that created deathly pathogens and viruses.”

Television pundits and high-profile political figures have helped spread the claim even further. Fox News host Tucker Carlson devoted segments on his shows on Wednesday and Thursday to promoting the conspiracy theory. On Wednesday, Donald Trump Jr. said conspiracy theories around the labs were proven to be a “fact” in a tweet to his 7.3 million followers.

Both Carlson and Trump misrepresented congressional testimony from a State Department official saying the U.S. was working with Ukraine to secure material in the biological labs, suggesting that indicated the labs were being used for illegitimate purposes.

It’s not surprising that a biological research center would contain potentially hazardous material, however. The World Health Organization said Thursday that it has asked Ukraine to destroy any samples that could pose a threat if released, either intentionally or accidentally.

While the disinformation poses a threat on its own, the White House warned this week that the Kremlin’s latest conspiracy theory could be a prelude to a chemical or biological attack that Russia would blame on the U.S. or Ukraine.

“Frankly, this influence campaign is completely consistent with longstanding Russian efforts to accuse the United States of sponsoring bioweapons work in the former Soviet Union,” U.S. Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines said Thursday during testimony before the Senate Intelligence Committee. “So this is a classic move by the Russians.”

The conspiracy theory has also been picked up by Chinese state media, and was further amplified this week by China’s Foreign Ministry, which repeated Russia’s claim and called for an investigation.

Milton Leitenberg, an arms control expert and senior research associate at the Center for International & Security Studies at the University of Maryland, noted that Russia has a long history of such disinformation. In the 1980s, Russian intelligence spread the conspiracy theory that the U.S. created HIV in a lab.

Leitenberg said numerous Russian scientists had visited a similar public health lab in the republic of Georgia, but that Russia continued to spread false claims about that facility.

“There’s nothing they don’t know about what’s taking place there, and they know that nothing of what they claim is true,” Leitenberg said. “The important thing is that they know that, unquestionably.”

While gaining traction in the U.S., the claims about bioweapons are likely intended for a domestic Russian audience, as a way to increase support for the invasion, according to Andy Carvin, senior fellow and managing editor at the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab, which is tracking Russian disinformation.

Carvin noted the Kremlin has also spread hoaxes about Ukrainian efforts to obtain nuclear weaponry.

“It’s a rinse-and-repeat cycle to hammer home these narratives, particularly to domestic audiences,” Carvin said.

Associated Press

Published 11 March 2022


AND


https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/02/24/us-biolabs-ukraine-russia/

Ukraine, US Biolabs, and an Ongoing Russian Disinformation Campaign
In an attempt to justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine, propagandists claimed the attack was focused on secret U.S. biolabs there.

Dan Evon

Published 24 February 2022

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biolabs in ukraine
Image via Meme

In the early hours of Feb. 24, 2022 (local time), as Russia conducted what Ukrainian leaders described as a “full-scale attack” on Ukraine, the hashtag #USBiolabs started to trend on Twitter as dozens of accounts repeated a piece of Russian propaganda, claiming that the actual focus of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine was secret U.S. biolabs where deadly diseases (such as COVID-19) were supposedly being produced.

The claim that the U.S. is operating secret biolabs in Ukraine is one that has been repeatedly spread by Russian propagandists since at least 2018. In May 2020, the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) released a statement calling on politicians to stop spreading false information about the existence of foreign military biological labs in Ukraine:

“Recently, ‘fake news’ about the alleged activities of American military biological laboratories in Ukraine has been spread in the media and social networks … No foreign biological laboratories operate in Ukraine. Statements recently made by individual politicians are not true and are a deliberate distortion of the facts.”

In February 2022, during the invasion of Ukraine, this false rumor started trending on Twitter after @WarClandestine posted a thread claiming that a map of Russia’s missile attacks lined up with the locations of these biolabs:

The thread ended with a comparison of two maps, one supposedly showing missile strikes and the second supposedly showing U.S. biolab locations.

Before we get into the factual details that disprove this theory (such as the fact that the U.S. did not install and does not operate biolabs in Ukraine, completely nullifying the second half of this comparison), let’s note a few quick observations about these two maps.

The missile attack map shows dozens of hits that don’t match up to alleged biolab locations, and the biolab map contains several locations that don’t match up with the missile map.
Each of the markers indicating a missile strike covers an area of approximately 25 square miles.
Overlaying maps on top of each other is a common way to make a coincidence seem like more than a coincidence. (Another such map, for example, supposedly shows a series of mysterious disappearances that may or may not have been caused by Bigfoot.)

Is COVID-19 a Bioweapon?

Conspiracy theories are very often built on top of one another. The claim that the U.S. is operating biolabs in Ukraine, for example, is built on the false notion that the United States (or, according to similar theories, China) intentionally started the COVID-19 pandemic with a human-made bioweapon. Once you buy into that rumor, you can be sold the next: that Russia is invading Ukraine to stop the next pandemic.

On social media, a number of people responded to a #usbiolabs thread with false claims about Russia attacking Ukraine to stop a “Covid-2” bioweapon from being released:

The problem, of course, is that there is no credible evidence that COVID-19 is a biological weapon. Stanley Perlman, MD, PhD, professor of microbiology and immunology and pediatric infectious diseases at the University of Iowa in Iowa City, said:

“COVID-19 is sufficiently unlike other viruses to have been created from them, and making a virus in the lab from scratch would be “virtually impossible … I don’t think we know enough about coronaviruses — or any virus—to be able to deliberately make a virus for release.”
Did the U.S. Military Install Biolabs in Ukraine?

Conspiracy theories are often fashioned from a small morsel of truth. In this case, the rumors are a distortion of the fact that the Ministry of Health of Ukraine and the Department of Defense of the United States of America entered into an agreement in 2005, while Republican U.S. President George W. Bush was in office, to “stem the threat of bio-terrorism by placing safeguards on deadly pathogens dating from a Soviet-era biological weapons program,” according to a contemporaneous news article in the Chicago Tribune. While the U.S. Defense Department’s Biological Threat Reduction Program provided some funding to upgrade biolabs in the Ukraine, these facilities are operated by the Ukrainian government under guidelines set under Ukrainian law.

The Kyiv Post reported:

According to the SBU, in 2005 the Ministry of Health of Ukraine and the U.S. Department of Defense signed a framework agreement to prevent the spread of technologies, pathogens and knowledge that can be used in the development of biological weapons. As part of this Agreement, a number of state laboratories located in Odesa, Kharkiv, Lviv, Kyiv, Vinnytsia, Kherson, Dnipropetrovsk regions were modernized (repair work was carried out, equipment was updated, supplies were purchased, etc.).

“We emphasize that these laboratories are financed from the state budget, are subordinate to the Ministry of Health and the state service on food safety and consumer protection,” the SBU said.

There is no evidence to indicate that these labs were “installed” by the U.S. military, nor that they are operated by U.S. forces. Here’s a video about what these labs actually do and the ongoing disinformation campaign that targets them.
The Disinformation Campaign

The rumors in the aftermath of the February 2022 invasion of Ukraine by Russia were just the latest iterations of an ongoing disinformation campaign that has been waged by the Kremlin for years. Sophie Gelava of the Tbilisi-based Media Development Foundation (MDF), an organization that monitors Russian statements, said that the Kremlin has been “actively spreading black propaganda against the laboratory since the day it was established.”

Coda Story, a news organization that sent reporters to one of these labs to investigate these claims in 2018, reported:

Even if the claims shift, the strategy is the same according to Sophie Gelava, depicting the lab as secretive and dangerous “so often that people start believing it.”

Now the MDF team has a growing list of examples of Russian officials or media outlets trying to use the Lugar Lab as a diversionary issue in the public relations battle over the poisoning of former Russian double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia.

[…]

“The intensity of these stories [about the lab] and the channels of distribution indicate that all of this is orchestrated directly from the Kremlin,” says Nodar Tangiashvili of East-West Management Institute, a U.S. non-profit organization which helps fund the MDF monitors.

Yet those associated with the lab doubt the Russians really believe all their own allegations, because they are sure their intelligence services have their own picture of what really goes on inside. “They must have had their own agents in there at some point,” said the American source.

A number of other media organizations have come to the same conclusion about the biolabs claim:

Kyiv Post: “SBU: No US biological laboratories in Ukraine”
EUvsDisinfo: “US Biolabs Have Been Developing New Biological Weapons in Ukraine”
CODA: “Does the US Have A Secret Germ Warfare Lab on Russia’s Doorstep?”
Daily Beast: “Russia, China Team Up to Peddle Insane U.S. COVID Lab Theory”
StopFake: “Fake: Ukraine a US Biological Testing Site”
The Bulletin: “Russian media spreading disinformation about US bioweapons as troops mass near Ukraine”

And lastly, the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine has addressed these rumors in the past. In April 2020, a statement was released to “set the record straight” regarding this disinformation campaign:

The U.S. Embassy would like to set the record straight regarding disinformation spreading in some circles in Ukraine that mirrors Russian disinformation regarding the strong U.S.-Ukrainian partnership to reduce biological threats.

Here in Ukraine, the U.S. Department of Defense’s Biological Threat Reduction Program works with the Ukrainian Government to consolidate and secure pathogens and toxins of security concern in Ukrainian government facilities, while allowing for peaceful research and vaccine development. We also work with our Ukrainian partners to ensure Ukraine can detect and report outbreaks caused by dangerous pathogens before they pose security or stability threats.

Our joint efforts help to ensure that dangerous pathogens do not fall into the wrong hands. We’re proud to partner with the Ministry of Health, State Service of Ukraine for Food Safety and Consumer Protection, National Academy of Agrarian Sciences, and the Ministry of Defense to make us all safer.

In sum, there’s no evidence that Russia was targeting “U.S. biolabs” when they launched a full-scale attack on Ukraine in February 2022. This claim was just the latest iteration in a long-running disinformation campaign by the Kremlin and its supporters.

Sources:

Bigg, Matthew Mpoke. “Putin’s Forces Attack Ukraine.” The New York Times, 23 Feb. 2022. NYTimes.com, https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/24/world/russia-ukraine-putin.

Borger, Julian. “Covid Bioweapon Claims ‘Scientifically Invalid’, US Intelligence Reports.” The Guardian, 29 Oct. 2021. The Guardian, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/29/us-intelligence-report-covid-origins.

“Covid Bioweapon Claims ‘Scientifically Invalid’, US Intelligence Reports.” The Guardian, 29 Oct. 2021. The Guardian, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/29/us-intelligence-report-covid-origins.

Davis, Julia. “Russia, China Team Up to Peddle Insane U.S. COVID Lab Theory.” The Daily Beast, 9 Apr. 2021. www.thedailybeast.com, https://www.thedailybeast.com/russia-china-team-up-to-peddle-insane-us-covid-lab-theory.

“DISINFO: US BIOLABS HAVE BEEN DEVELOPING NEW BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS IN UKRAINE.” EuVsDisinfo, 15 Apr. 2021, https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/us-biolabs-have-been-developing-new-biological-weapons-in-ukraine.

“Does the US Have A Secret Germ Warfare Lab on Russia’s Doorstep?” Coda Story, 19 Apr. 2018, https://www.codastory.com/disinformation/does-the-us-have-a-secret-germ-warfare-lab-on-russias-doorstep/.

Knight, Dacre. “COVID-19 Pandemic Origins: Bioweapons and the History of Laboratory Leaks.” Southern Medical Journal, vol. 114, no. 8, Aug. 2021, pp. 465–67. PubMed Central, https://doi.org/10.14423/SMJ.0000000000001283.

“Maps: Tracking the Russian Invasion of Ukraine.” The New York Times, 14 Feb. 2022. NYTimes.com, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/world/europe/ukraine-maps.html.

Mary Van, Beusekom and 2020. “Scientists: ‘Exactly Zero’ Evidence COVID-19 Came from a Lab.” CIDRAP, https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/05/scientists-exactly-zero-evidence-covid-19-came-lab. Accessed 24 Feb. 2022.

Romanyuk, Vika. “Fake: Ukraine a US Biological Testing Site.” StopFake, 30 Aug. 2017, https://www.stopfake.org/en/fake-ukraine-a-us-biological-testing-site/.

“Russian Media Spreading Disinformation about US Bioweapons as Troops Mass near Ukraine.” Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, 8 Feb. 2022, https://thebulletin.org/2022/02/russian-media-spreading-disinformation-about-us-bioweapons-as-troops-mass-near-ukraine/.

“SBU: No US Biological Laboratories in Ukraine.” Kyiv Post, 8 May 2020, https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/sbu-no-us-biological-laboratories-in-ukraine.html.

“U.S.-Ukraine Partnership to Reduce Biological Threats.” U.S. Embassy in Ukraine, 22 Apr. 2020, https://ua.usembassy.gov/u-s-ukraine-partnership-to-reduce-biological-threats/.

Zeleny, Jeff. “U.S., Ukraine Sign Bioterrorism Pact.” Indianapolis Star, 30 Aug. 2005.

“Програма зі зменшення біологічної загрози.” Посольство США в Україні, https://ua.usembassy.gov/uk/embassy-uk/kyiv-uk/sections-offices-uk/defense-threat-reduction-office-uk/biological-threat-reduction-program-uk/. Accessed 24 Feb. 2022.


snood
 
  2  
Wed 16 Mar, 2022 03:11 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Good post. A tad too short, but I got the gist.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Wed 16 Mar, 2022 05:40 pm
Russians flee town of Voznesensk after failing to capture it. Many dead (Wall Street Journal urnal)
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-russia-voznesensk-town-battle-11647444734

A Kalashnikov rifle slung over his shoulder, Voznesensk’s funeral director, Mykhailo Sokurenko, spent this Tuesday driving through fields and forests, picking up dead Russian soldiers and taking them to a freezer railway car piled with Russian bodies—the casualties of one of the most comprehensive routs President Vladimir Putin’s forces have suffered since he ordered the invasion of Ukraine.

A rapid Russian advance into the strategic southern town of 35,000 people, a gateway to a Ukrainian nuclear power station and pathway to attack Odessa from the back, would have showcased the Russian military’s abilities and severed Ukraine’s key communications lines.

Instead, the two-day battle of Voznesensk, details of which are only now emerging, turned decisively against the Russians. Judging from the destroyed and abandoned armor, Ukrainian forces, which comprised local volunteers and the professional military, eliminated most of a Russian battalion tactical group on March 2 and 3.

The Ukrainian defenders’ performance against a much-better-armed enemy in an overwhelmingly Russian-speaking region was successful in part because of widespread popular support for the Ukrainian cause—one reason the Russian invasion across the country has failed to achieve its principal goals so far. Ukraine on Wednesday said it was launching a counteroffensive on several fronts.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  -3  
Wed 16 Mar, 2022 05:49 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
Don't you ever feel the slightest twinge.......(snip)


I'm sharing what your government is stating, but that content is clearly not what you're interested in hearing, because it gives you feelings of cognitive dissonance.

You won't get over that, until you address your problems with basic comprehension. Good luck on your journey. It's a bumpy ride.

bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Wed 16 Mar, 2022 06:11 pm
@Builder,
No. What you are doing is repeating debunked Russian claims.
Builder
 
  -4  
Wed 16 Mar, 2022 06:14 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Considering how far to the extreme "right" Zelensky's men were swaying, maybe creepy Joe is just hanging back, to see how things pan out with Putin?

You know about as much as anyone in this "conflict", bob.

Time you admitted that.

glitterbag
 
  1  
Wed 16 Mar, 2022 07:34 pm
Do your children still live in the US?
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Wed 16 Mar, 2022 09:15 pm
@Builder,
That barely qualifies as gibberish.

Are you saying I'm ignorant just because you are?

All I'm saying is I'm getting better information than you do. By a looooong shot.
Builder
 
  -2  
Thu 17 Mar, 2022 02:33 am
@glitterbag,
Quote:
Do your children still live in the US?


Do your's?
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  -1  
Thu 17 Mar, 2022 02:36 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
That barely qualifies as gibberish.


In your neighbourhood, gibberish is all you get.

Quote:
Are you saying I'm ignorant just because you are?


See above.

Quote:
All I'm saying is I'm getting better information than you do.


Quoting a verifiable source appears to be the major problem you face.

Actually, you don't face it. You just deny it.
hightor
 
  4  
Thu 17 Mar, 2022 04:37 am
@Builder,
'creepy' Builder wrote:
I'm sharing what your government is stating...

This is what you quoted:
Quote:
Ukraine has biological research facilities...

Among your problems are that, 1. you're paranoid and read things into other people's statements that aren't there, and 2. you're very gullible and allow your imagination to be hijacked by the crudest alt-right disinformation.

Yes, Ukraine has "biological research facilities" – most modern countries do. Ukraine has an extensive agricultural sector and biological research on diseases of crops and animals is carried out to understand challenges and develop protections for this vital area of the economy. Obviously, carelessly blowing up a research facility where cultures of anthrax, ergot, or wheat rust are being studied could release these toxins into the atmosphere, or destroy carefully collected vital samples of plant and animal tissue. Securing the facilities is a responsible and necessary.
engineer
 
  4  
Thu 17 Mar, 2022 06:08 am
@hightor,
The thing about these facilities is they are not secret. It's very easy to find out about them and what they are doing if people are really interested.
 

 
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