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Who am I?

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They say to be myself but who the heck am I? Am I my feelings, my beliefs? I've had feelings before and beliefs that I found wrong; that I now regret. I had a vague idea back then that what I was feeling was wrong, but didn't really understand why. Now I do, and I don't understand how anyone could say that I could have been my feelings. I also had a strong faith in what I think is true, but now I see that it might not be. I can not really be my beliefs. I have the memory but I don't like the memory, and I don't want to relive it. I'm not my memory.

You could say that I was not the same person as before, but then had I died a million deaths? I can't understand that, and I can't accept any of that.

Don't tell me who I am, and I'll still give you my blessing. Tell me who I am and you'll have my deepest gratitude.

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I seem to be everything that I am not - I know I am not the experiences that I experience. I am the experiencer.

But as to what that experiencer is - I have no clue and wonder if I can ever find out.

GREAT question Ray.

TTF

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Re: Who am I?

Ray wrote:

They say to be myself but who the heck am I? Am I my feelings, my beliefs? I've had feelings before and beliefs that I found wrong; that I now regret. I had a vague idea back then that what I was feeling was wrong, but didn't really understand why. Now I do, and I don't understand how anyone could say that I could have been my feelings. I also had a strong faith in what I think is true, but now I see that it might not be. I can not really be my beliefs. I have the memory but I don't like the memory, and I don't want to relive it. I'm not my memory.

You could say that I was not the same person as before, but then had I died a million deaths? I can't understand that, and I can't accept any of that.

Don't tell me who I am, and I'll still give you my blessing. Tell me who I am and you'll have my deepest gratitude.

You are relating two different senses of the term 'I' when in fact there is no relationship. One sense belongs in the public domain, the other belongs in the private domain: you cannot equate them in the way you are trying to do. When you ask 'who' am I?, you refer to your human image in the public domain. Likewise, when you ask 'what' am I? you refer to your physical or experiential image in the public domain. Whereas the private 'I' (as you find when you wake up in the morning, for example) cannot be related to either of these public images; although you may want to map the private experience 'I' to the public image 'I'.

In other words, your problem is partly grammaticaly derived and partly logical.

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Ray, you are everything. You are not one mental facility observing the others. You are all of them. This inner storm is the propulsion of evolution, the unfolding of the present. It happens within us same as all around us. A thought pops into your head, your feelings respond, your ideas refine it, and thus, maybe in the future, evolution will have created some new wonder or horror through you. It is entirely possible, since you are a part of nature, governed by the same forces that govern everything else. And, same as everything else, you are and command a little of that force yourself.

Clearer? Didn't think so... Smile

Smile

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Cyracuz wrote:

Ray, you are everything.

Yes, that sounds right.

Ray, you are not the quivering, quaking mess of chemistry that governs your day-to-day beliefs and actions. Your mess and my mess are here only so that we can have this discussion. You are the calm one, the called one, the maker of universes.

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See, I still think you guys are mixing up two definitions of 'I'. That's the only answer to the question 'who am I?'

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Ray...

...beats the piss outta me who you are.

I also don't know anything else about the Ultimate REALITY.

I see you have several people here in the thread giving you their guesses about these things. Many of them sound as though they are imparting great truths...revealing WHAT IS.

If I were you...I would ignore all of their guesses.

If I were you...I would ignore all of my own guesses.

I'd stick with...I really don't know...and live with that.

It can be very satisfying when you master it.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Ray...

...beats the piss outta me who you are.

I also don't know anything else about the Ultimate REALITY.

I see you have several people here in the thread giving you their guesses about these things. Many of them sound as though they are imparting great truths...revealing WHAT IS.

If I were you...I would ignore all of their guesses.

If I were you...I would ignore all of my own guesses.

I'd stick with...I really don't know...and live with that.

It can be very satisfying when you master it.

By saying 'I really don't know', you are accepting the grounds of the question 'who really am I?'. It is the grounds that are in question, not the answer to the question.

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John Jones wrote:

By saying 'I really don't know', you are accepting the grounds of the question 'who really am I?'. It is the grounds that are in question, not the answer to the question.

Sounds pretty...but I think it is a cop-out.

I think everything is "in question"...and I stand by my response.

But I am willing to discuss it.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

John Jones wrote:

By saying 'I really don't know', you are accepting the grounds of the question 'who really am I?'. It is the grounds that are in question, not the answer to the question.

Sounds pretty...but I think it is a cop-out.

I think everything is "in question"...and I stand by my response.

But I am willing to discuss it.

I copped into something? and am now moving in erstwhile re-step?

No, I only repeat my last but one post where I pointed out that to ask 'who am I' is to equate the private 'I' with the public 'I' and that it is this equating of the two that causes us confusion on the best way to reply. With your response I thought that to say 'I do not know' in answer to the question 'who am I', is to go along with the confusion of mixing up the two meanings of 'I'. So I placed your answer along with everyone else's. I am, bloody irritating.

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John Jones wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
John Jones wrote:

By saying 'I really don't know', you are accepting the grounds of the question 'who really am I?'. It is the grounds that are in question, not the answer to the question.

Sounds pretty...but I think it is a cop-out.

I think everything is "in question"...and I stand by my response.

But I am willing to discuss it.

I copped into something? and am now moving in erstwhile re-step?

No, I only repeat my last but one post where I pointed out that to ask 'who am I' is to equate the private 'I' with the public 'I' and that it is this equating of the two that causes us confusion on the best way to reply. With your response I thought that to say 'I do not know' in answer to the question 'who am I', is to go along with the confusion of mixing up the two meanings of 'I'. So I placed your answer along with everyone else's. I am, bloody irritating.

No...you sound like a very interesting person.

I, on the other hand....AND A VERY, VERY IRRITATING PERSON.

I've got people in this forum who would be willing to do pages upon pages about how irritating I can be.

Glad to make your acquaintance, John.

I have a feeling we will discuss many things if you stick around.

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Frank, appreciate your agnostic stance. I'm not looking for an absolute certainty but am looking to look for the most likely correct answer.

Quote:

Clearer? Didn't think so...

lol, Cyracuz I think you can see that I hold the view that we are the universe trying to be aware of itself. Thus, everyone must be taken into consideration. :wink:

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Ray wrote:

Frank, appreciate your agnostic stance. I'm not looking for an absolute certainty but am looking to look for the most likely correct answer.

I'll buy that.

I often go with the most likely correct answer as my guess.

But I am sure you will acknowledge there are many things associated with the Ultimate REALITY of existence that truly do not have a "most likely correct answer." The information...the evidence...is simply too ambiguous to be used as the basis for a reasonable, meaningful guess.

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It'll be hard. My original post was actually a complaint against all those people telling others who they are and the idea of being "yourself" etc. But hey I have my own guess.

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Ray wrote:

I'm not looking for an absolute certainty but am looking to look for the most likely correct answer.

Quote:
Clearer? Didn't think so...

I am not fooled by your question 'who am I?, and am not likely ever to go scurrying around looking for an answer to a question that has not been asked.

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huh?

I wasn't looking for a supernatural answer really, just a reasonable conclusion on who we are. I've so far rejected who I am as my personality or feelings.

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Ray wrote:

huh?

I wasn't looking for a supernatural answer really, just a reasonable conclusion on who we are. I've so far rejected who I am as my personality or feelings.

Takes a deep breath. 'Who are you?' is a question that people ask of others. 'Who am I' is a question you might ask when you need to be told your name or some other public identity which you may not be sure of. That is clear. There is nothing obscure about that.
But you, YOU, are trying to bend this grammar and meaning of 'who am I' to refer to a private experience.

So THIS is the source of the confusion and mystery - your mis-use of language. The correct answer to give to you, if you ask 'who am I?' is 'you are Ray'.

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But then who is Ray? I other words the question was meant to ask what a self is.

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Re: Who am I?

Ray wrote:

They say to be myself but who the heck am I? Am I my feelings, my beliefs? I've had feelings before and beliefs that I found wrong; that I now regret. I had a vague idea back then that what I was feeling was wrong, but didn't really understand why. Now I do, and I don't understand how anyone could say that I could have been my feelings. I also had a strong faith in what I think is true, but now I see that it might not be. I can not really be my beliefs. I have the memory but I don't like the memory, and I don't want to relive it. I'm not my memory.

You could say that I was not the same person as before, but then had I died a million deaths? I can't understand that, and I can't accept any of that.

Don't tell me who I am, and I'll still give you my blessing. Tell me who I am and you'll have my deepest gratitude.

Ray, You have the curse of the thinking man (women).When you are young it can drive you mad at times.But ultimately it will lead to a degree of understanding you will see is missing in others.So take your place at the front of human progress (all thinking people play a part).You can not answer who you are in a couple days.It will make you crazy.Instead learn as you live life and observe it, you can't rush it or you'll end up in a cult. "Be carfull who you pretend to be, Because in the end you are who you pretend to be" -Curt Vonegut Jr. P.S. I am not a professional of any kind.I'm just another a**hole who thinks he knows what hes talking about.

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Ray wrote:

But then who is Ray? I other words the question was meant to ask what a self is.

Who is Ray? Are there two of you? Which one do you want me to refer to?

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