The passage of time

Re: The passage of time

chris2a wrote:

Does time really "pass"? How would you describe it to someone who has completely lost their ability to remember?

An intriguing double question, Chris! I recently had to work with an Alzheimer's patient, and it was sticky, dealing with her memory problems. If this question were on a test, I'd flunk for sure!

Something about that last question begs to be developed into a story...wish I had the talent, sigh...

Where do you get these thought-provoking questions? They remind me of the Un-Game. Please post some more, if you have them. Even if I can't reply, I like to be exposed to them, letting them ferment in my mind.

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the structure of time
Losing one's memory is a terrifying prospect and I could not even begin to imagine what my reality would be like without my memory faculty. But as to the question of the passage of time, suppose we see it outside the human experience by way of example.

A rock has memory. How it was formed over time is completely encoded in its structure. In effect, we see all of its history in an instant. But I have not really answered the question of whether or not time passes.

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Re: the structure of time

chris2a wrote:

Losing one's memory is a terrifying prospect and I could not even begin to imagine what my reality would be like without my memory faculty. But as to the question of the passage of time, suppose we see it outside the human experience by way of example.

A rock has memory. How it was formed over time is completely encoded in its structure. In effect, we see all of its history in an instant. But I have not really answered the question of whether or not time passes.

A rock has memory? I dunno, Chris; isn't that stretching the meaning of "memory"?

But hey, I have a nagging question for you (left over from eons ago, when I had one year of intensive Greek): what is the difference in usage between the Optative and the Subjunctive (I know they have different conjugations, but I'm talking about the usage. My instructor couldn't help me with it; she just parroted what the grammar book said, which was ZERO help!). Thanx for your help!

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You've got lots of good stuff in that head of yours, Chris. Keep it coming and never stop thinking! Like diagknowz ('cept diagknowz is much, much better at this type of deep thinking than I could ever be!), I may not be answering much (if anything), but dang I sure love to read about it!

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memory
Yes, a rock has memory! A broken glass on the floor is the encoded structure, or memory, of the event; there was exactly one, and only one particular way that it hit the floor including all the other environmental factors of the event that match the pattern of debris.

But does time really "pass" or is it just an illusion of a sequence of events remembered?

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Time doesn't pass. We pass. Hence the term "he passed away".

Time does not move in a linear fashion. The present expands, grows and alters, but it never ends.

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Time is defined only by the occurence of events.

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the stream of time
But if time is encoded in every instant of the present, does it really "pass"?

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Re: the stream of time

chris2a wrote:

But if time is encoded in every instant of the present, does it really "pass"?

I've figured it all out, but I'm blowed if I'm going to tell anyone.

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Re: the stream of time

chris2a wrote:

But if time is encoded in every instant of the present, does it really "pass"?

If it's "encoded," then it's trapped, isn't it? To me, the very definition of time is its fluidity, its elusiveness, its "live" quality. Once it loses that, then it is no longer time.

Or! Idea

Is it like the Black Spider in that Swiss novella from the mid-19th century? The spider is bottled up for 2-3 generations in a thick beam. During that time, it harms nobody. But then, a rebellious youth unplugs the cork from the beam, and WHOOSH! The Black Spider is out again, wreaking wretched misery on the villagers.

Maybe time can be frozen and then resurrected? Who knows?.... (more material for a story, durn...)

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But if we always exist in the present, a place where all causality converges, then does time really pass? In addition, I don't think this conundrum calls into question or affects the debate of free will versus determinism.

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Time is a rate of change in displacement.

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Agreed, Ray.

I was searching for a way to state it verbally, when I read your post;

"memory" is not a word I would use to describe the encoding of growth to rocks-- trees-- or the result of events. Rather, I like the words CHANGE or EXCHANGE.

Cyracuz answered your question satisfactorily to me.

Good thoughts-- makes for good reading. Thanks.

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Time is an illusion, a construct of brain chemistry. One of the common experiences of mystics throughout the ages is that perfect being is beyond time and space. People who have stepped outside their brain chemistry via drugs report the same thing: perfect oneness in perfect timelessness.

Why and how our brains create a sense of "time" is a great mystery. Here you get into trying to eff the ineffable.

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AllThisBeauty wrote:

Time is an illusion, a construct of brain chemistry. One of the common experiences of mystics throughout the ages is that perfect being is beyond time and space. People who have stepped outside their brain chemistry via drugs report the same thing: perfect oneness in perfect timelessness.

Why and how our brains create a sense of "time" is a great mystery. Here you get into trying to eff the ineffable.

Yes. Our perception of time is invariably tied to the dynamics of our thought processes. Interesting. Also, I think that if we consider the present as the convergence of causality it brings the concept of non-linear time into the realm of possibilities and certainly much easier to define.

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Disagree. Time is not an illusion. Since our brain has the precondition of space, time exist because a rate of change in the displacement of an object in space, is time.

Maybe it depends on what you mean by illusion.

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AllThisBeauty wrote:

Time is an illusion, a construct of brain chemistry.

If it's an illusion, then what about aging, death and decay?

chris2a wrote:

Our perception of time is invariably tied to the dynamics of our thought processes.

True, but that doesn't prove it's an illusion. You're talking apples and oranges, it seems to me. Our perception of anything at all is invariably tied to the dynamics of our thought processes, but that doesn't say anything about the objective state of the "thing" we're perceiving (unless of course, solipsism is our creed :wink: )

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Yes, but I was only talking about the perception of time. The original quandary remains; does time really pass if we are always in the present?
Question

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chris2a wrote:

Yes, but I was only talking about the perception of time. The original quandary remains; does time really pass if we are always in the present?

Er, um, I get the impression Professor Einstein is getting exasperated with the denseness of the pupils (well, this one, anyway). Very Happy

The whole conundrum has too many slippery variables, it seems to me. We always feel like we're in the present, but in reality, yesterday is at best a stale today. (Bet you're rollllling your eyes, now, eh? Sigh, well, I'm not a philosopher; I'm more of a poet...Philosophy always gets me chasing my tail.) And tomorrow is only an embryonic today. So, they're both not really the "present."

(But then again, it sounds like nothing but semantics...ACK! Reminiscent of a mirror that reflects in a mirror that reflects in a mirror..... Shocked

)

[LATER] I just reread that and realized, it's nothing but Jabberwocky. Drivel. LOL! Methinx I need to hit the hay, or at least, not try to tackle hairy topix this late at nite.

Pollygeez for the hot air. Rolling Eyes

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The passage of time

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