Your vague metaphysical idea; post here

Re: Your vague metaphysical idea; post here
Ray

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What's your metaphysical philosophy?

I have none. But I agree that most part of philosophy is metaphysical. Since Plato and Aristotle, the christian philosophy and theology, Descartes, Leibniz, Hegel, Schelling, Schopenhauer and even Marx, to modern authors like Bergson, Husserl, Jaspers, Jung and others.

I prefer the ones who rejected metaphysics, like the empiricists, Kant, Nietzsche, Wittgenstein and the young Heidegger. And, of course, all the greeks before Plato.

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Re: Your vague metaphysical idea; post here

Ray wrote:

What's your metaphysical philosophy?

What's yours?

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I have none. But I agree that most part of philosophy is metaphysical. Since Plato and Aristotle, the christian philosophy and theology, Descartes, Leibniz, Hegel, Schelling, Schopenhauer and even Marx, to modern authors like Bergson, Husserl, Jaspers, Jung and others.

I prefer the ones who rejected metaphysics, like the empiricists, Kant, Nietzsche, Wittgenstein and the young Heidegger. And, of course, all the greeks before Plato.

We all have some to a certain extent right? :wink:
Kant has his own metaphysics. His Transcendental Idealism limits it, but his assertion that there is some part of reality we might not know is a part of his metaphysical view himself... Locke was somewhat metaphysical also.

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What's yours?

I asked first... Laughing

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Metaphysics is for people who have no concern for ordinary reality. It's a luxury for the mind played by those who have no concerns for putting food on the table or a roof over their heads. I find common reality to be sufficient for meeting my needs. Get real!

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Ah, dys. Don't bash Ray. He's one of the good guys.

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Thank you Letty.

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Metaphysics is for people who have no concern for ordinary reality. It's a luxury for the mind played by those who have no concerns for putting food on the table or a roof over their heads. I find common reality to be sufficient for meeting my needs. Get real!

wikipedia definition:

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Metaphysics (Greek words meta = after/beyond and physics = nature) is a branch of philosophy, and related to the natural sciences, like physics, psychology and the biology of the brain; and also to mysticism, religion, and other spiritual subjects. It is notoriously difficult to define, but for purposes of briefly introducing it, it can be identified as the study of any of the most fundamental concepts and beliefs about the basic nature of reality, on which many other concepts and beliefs rest&m

I consider something to be metaphysical if it is concerned with the attempt to understand the fundamental of reality.

I believe it to be inevitably linked with epistemology.

EDIT: I understand that it has been associated with some really off the top ideas, but those can be refuted with our epistemological basis.

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after/beyond and physics

that pretty much spells it out for me, methinks Mr Ray and good guy at heart, Plato/Aristotle has poisoned your mind towards a penchant of dualism. Sorry to say I am not aware of any current and successful treadment for such an affliction but never cease to hope. Will I next hear from you that you also have an interest in natural vs un-natural? (which is to say antoher dualistic "what is" vs "what isn't"?)

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Ray, defining the typical philosophical belief is a great way to get started. I really have to run look up stuff like that, but I do like the metaphysical poets, one of which in John Donne. There is also an occult side that I was surprised to discover as well! So, I learned something.

Dys, I realize why and how you became pragmatic, and also why you like Thomas E. Eliot. You be one of the good guys, too.

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No, I have no interest in natural vs. non-natural debates, because anything that exists can be called natural and there is really no point in debating what is natural and what is not natural. It also depends on what you mean by it.

Physics is the empirical understanding of the universe (also not complete), and I would consider it a part of metaphysics.

"a branch of philosophy, and related to the natural sciences, like physics, psychology and the biology of the brain"

People may have different thoughts as to what metaphysics mean, but I find it as ultimately the search for the fundamental of reality.

BTW, Aristotle was one of the pioneers of Biology and Physics.

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John Donne... I'll look it up. Very Happy

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ray Ms Letty says you are a good guy and I truely accept what Ms Letty has to say however "meta" anything is somewhat of a pardox for rationality. to be other than what "is" (physics) is pretty much nonsense in my mind. btw Aristotle was a fruitcake with a few reasonalbe ideas (even a blind pig finds a few acorns)

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Could it not be that when the word was first used, there was a general belief that an afterlife exist, and that's why it's called beyond physics? Now, the terms are used widely and it's basically an investigation into reality, even those that we can not observed systematically but observed that it is there.

One example, from Scientific American Special Edition: Mind page 44 to 45

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Assume that we know absolutely everything about the physical processes in the brains of bats. Would we then have a clear sense of the bat's consciousness? Would we be able to know [exactly everything] "what it's like" to be a bat?

We can observe that certain specie might be able to see more colours than we do, but do we know what those colours look like?

Certainly everything arises from the physical, but with the complexity of the processes which arises from the physical we have what we can see and what we are seeing.

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well, Ray. I just dedicated a song to you on the radio.

(dys, we certainly don't want to do T.S. Eliot's Wasteland)

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your thread, Ray.

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Ray, that chair under your butt, is that "physical' or Plationic/Aristotean chair "form/ideal"? An ever better question would be "which would you prefer?"

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well, Ray. I just dedicated a song to you on the radio.

(dys, we certainly don't want to do T.S. Eliot's Wasteland)

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your thread, Ray.

Not at all, feel free to comment anytime.

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Ray, that chair under your butt, is that "physical' or Plationic/Aristotean chair "form/ideal"? An ever better question would be "which would you prefer?"

And that chair which I'm sitting on (and the chair you're sitting on), is composed of quarks, leptons, which electromagnetically interact with photons(containing wave/particle properties) that when a single photon is projected onto a double slit, seemed to have gone through both slit at the same time interfering with one another causing an interference pattern in the screen at the back of the slit. Either that or it may be interfered by a photon from a parallel universe.

The so called "form" is basically a universal identification of what an object is, properties that the physical has assumed. Plato's theory of the forms is troubling, I understand, but from what I've read, Aristotle rejected it? I'm not a fan of Aristotle by any great means but he wasn't all that fruity.

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So what we have in my seat is a "pattern" of energy" and to that I agree but Plato ws not describing what an object "is" with "forms" but rather what an object "should be" Aristotle continue that bunk with his "acorn/oak" analogy. Or as we say out here in the olde west "Life's too short to hunt with an ugly dog, even if you do like its Karma"

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Yeah, he did mess up his metaphysics with the notion of a "formal cause", but let's not forget that this was in ancient Greece.

Alright, let's move on from The Ancient Greek's already. :wink:

from Wikipedia:
Metaphysics group:
1) Ontology
2) Theology
3) Universal Science

Thoughts on these?

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1. ontology = being and nothingness
2. theology = the study of what is nothingness
3. Universal science = Plato's system of idealism=shadows only discerned by philosopher kings.
Really Ray, lets explore the Platonic/Aristolean concept of physiologic/pathologic and see where that takes us in the modern world.

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Dys, you are quite the cynic.

1. Ontology: The study of being
2. Theology: Is there a divine being? I'm an agnostic.
3. Universal Science: It does not have to be about Plato's theory of forms, I reject those... I simply see it as a study of identity and universals. You can reject Plato's or Aristotle's ideas and present your own reasoning.

Alright then, let me just term my thread in a different manner so as to be satisfactory for those opposed to metaphysics.

What is your philosophy of reality?

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Your vague metaphysical idea; post here

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