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Dirty language????

 
 
Diane
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jul, 2005 09:20 am
There are several possible clues to the origin of f**k. One is, "For unlawful carnal knowledge." Why is the acronym dirty? Makes no sense.

Elegantly formed and precise sentences that rip the listener to shreds, taking away one's dignity and sense of worth are far worse, IMO, than calling someone a f**ker. Besides, swear words seldom retain their original meaning. I'll bet that "f**k yourself" is used more as a generic insult rather than as a literal suggestion.

That was a great article Frank. How about posting some others?
0 Replies
 
John Jones
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jul, 2005 12:15 pm
Re: Dirty language????
Frank Apisa wrote:

Garner began his essay with, "This is a story about a word I can't write in this newspaper. It starts with 'f' and ends with 'k'..."

Well, when your name begins with '"f" and ends with "k" you tend to sit up and take notice of a sentence like that.

But, of course, it was not the name "Frank" he had in mind.

I also eliminated "fork" because I had seen that word in print just seconds earlier--in a Miss Manners' piece chiding people who use fingers when eating chicken in settings where "...a cultured person would use a fork."

And surely it couldn't be fink, flak, flank, funk, flunk, flask, fleck, flick, flock, folk, frisk, forelock, fetlock, flintlock, or fiddlestick--because those words are found in newspapers all the time.

quote]

You mean FU(K?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jul, 2005 12:58 pm
Diane wrote:
There are several possible clues to the origin of f**k. One is, "For unlawful carnal knowledge." Why is the acronym dirty? Makes no sense.

Elegantly formed and precise sentences that rip the listener to shreds, taking away one's dignity and sense of worth are far worse, IMO, than calling someone a f**ker. Besides, swear words seldom retain their original meaning. I'll bet that "f**k yourself" is used more as a generic insult rather than as a literal suggestion.

That was a great article Frank. How about posting some others?


Hey Diane, We've got a huge get together coming up in August. Lots of visitors from the far parts of the country. Any chance you and Dys can make it?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jul, 2005 12:59 pm
Got more to say to others....but am short changed on time right now. Maybe later.
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Diane
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jul, 2005 01:45 pm
Frank, we'll be having quite a bit of company in August, but would love to see you all again. When in August are you planning the get together? I think all our company will have departed by the 21st.

One think I can't understand is why anyone would travel to New York or New Mexico in August! Don't they realize how f**cking hot it gets? Are you sure you wouldn't rather join us for a high country camping trip?


(Edited for clarity, I hope.)
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jul, 2005 03:32 pm
Diane wrote:
Frank, we'll be having quite a bit of company in August, but would love to see you all again. When in August are you planning the get together? I think all our company will have departed by the 21st.

One think I can't understand is why anyone would travel to New York or New Mexico in August! Don't they realize how f**cking hot it gets? Are you sure you wouldn't rather join us for a high country camping trip?


(Edited for clarity, I hope.)


Laughed until it hurt.

Phoenix is coming in in early August. Bunch of others.

We'll see ya at some point...prolly here in the Big Apple rather than in New Mexico, though.
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thethinkfactory
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2005 11:22 am
Frank -

1) Missed you bro.

2) I agree and have argued something similar myself.

My argument that is that offense can only be in the person offended. I don't think 'offensive' is anything metaphysically material. There is nothing different between the soundwaves (intrinsically) when saying "****" or when saying "Funk". One is offensive to some while the other is not. (Generally, unless you have some aversion to Parliment or Bootsy Collins)

However, here are the replies I have gotten:

1) It sounds ignorant and makes the listener more likely to discount what you say.

2) Convention is convention and to fight it is futile. Just stop dropping the F bomb.

Thoughts?

TTF
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John Jones
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2005 01:22 pm
thethinkfactory wrote:
Convention is convention and to fight it is futile. Just stop dropping the F bomb.

Thoughts?

TTF


bollocks
0 Replies
 
SuperScott
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2005 06:07 pm
I believe dirty language is only dirty, because the public regards it that way. If people would stop pretending that words can be dirty or wrong then they would cease to be that way.

For example: Stop censorship of such language so that the language would become less impacting. The words would lose their "dirtiness," and people would use them less.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2005 06:54 pm
thethinkfactory wrote:
Frank -

1) Missed you bro.


Hey Jason.

Quote:


2) I agree and have argued something similar myself.

My argument that is that offense can only be in the person offended. I don't think 'offensive' is anything metaphysically material. There is nothing different between the soundwaves (intrinsically) when saying "****" or when saying "Funk". One is offensive to some while the other is not. (Generally, unless you have some aversion to Parliment or Bootsy Collins)

However, here are the replies I have gotten:

1) It sounds ignorant and makes the listener more likely to discount what you say.


Yep...I hear that all the time myself. Heard it first in grammar school. I had a rather colorful vocabulary even then. Teachers use to say that it was a sign of a poor vocabulary.

But I was probably number one in the school in vocabulary.


Quote:

2) Convention is convention and to fight it is futile. Just stop dropping the F bomb.


F**K 'em. I think "colorful language" and "colorful metaphores" make all conversations more interesting.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2005 08:12 pm
Quote:
My argument that is that offense can only be in the person offended. I don't think 'offensive' is anything metaphysically material. There is nothing different between the soundwaves (intrinsically) when saying "****" or when saying "Funk". One is offensive to some while the other is not. (Generally, unless you have some aversion to Parliment or Bootsy Collins)


I agree. Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, offense is in the mindset of the listener.

I once worked with a guy who said 'the magic word' Very Happy at least once in every sentence. During his performance review he was dinged for his offensive language. He was quite angry about it and ranted around shouting, "What the f**k are they talking about? I don't f**king swear!" We laughed and tried to suggest he listen to himself.

Later, I was telling the story to my mother to give her a laugh. She asked if we'd ever heard him use phrases such as "Jesus Christ!" or "Goddamn it!" when he was angry. I said not that I knew of. She said, then he doesn't swear.
0 Replies
 
thethinkfactory
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2005 11:12 am
Yeah. I agree with the **** em philosophy of life.

Or as we used to say in the Marines - Fuckem if they can't take a joke.

TF
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chrdani
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2005 03:18 pm
Great essay Frank! It made me laugh and think at the same time! Smile

However, I think your theory about language and how to "remove" dirty language is a little bit static.

When I read old books, I some times miss out on the cursing, because I simply do not understand that it can be considered dirty. Even my parents cursing seems to me as being a quasi-dirty; more funny than dirty.

Eg: In Shakespeare's "Othello", the main character with the same name as the title of the work, is described as being a "Moor". Not until the second act did I understand that this had racial undertones.

The element of immigration and/or foreign influence may change cursing radically in just a few years. At least were I live, English has influenced the language so much, that many children say the F-word just as in the original language.

I don't think adults in general are much offended by it, as it holds no intimate meaning to them, but it is a strong expression among teenagers.

So I think we are already ignoring a lot of bad language without being aware of it.

Moreover, I don't think you can simply ignore statements which involves family members. "Your Mother..."-kind of dirty language has hit my home country pretty hard, and I think even adults are offended by that.
0 Replies
 
g day
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2005 07:13 am
Although the F.C.U.K. T-shirts are very popular at the moment - no one has explained to me what it meant... until I walked passed a bus stop and there was a very chesty girl wearing a F.C.U.K. T-shirt.

Unlike the others this one had the acroynm written down the shirt, and very usefully expanded the slogan to:

Fat
Chick
Unbelievable
Knockers

I gave her the greatest smile and then had to chuckle - she did too. It reminded me of a story my dad told me from the MD of HESTIA who make bras down under. When asked why that name he was answered straight back and stright faced, Holds Every Sized Tit In Australia.

Nice POV Frank, but cleanse all the good words and what will we say when we stub our toes?
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flushd
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2005 01:54 pm
Interesting , Frank!

I have quite a sailor's mouth in person. Some find it offensive, some don't.
I have one friend who laughs like crazy every time I say the word "sh*t!" or "f*ck!"...which I do a lot. I asked why it was so funny. He said " Why would anyone shout out about feces or sex when they are angry or trying to be mean? That's just so weird!"

I thought that was very funny; and I think of that a lot now when I say those words. Embarrassed It does seem kinda ridiculous. What is so bad about sex and feces, anyways? lol
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ralpheb
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 01:23 am
I know I know. There are 500,000 words in the English language and there are only about a handful that are considered "dirty".
Should we edit the language? should people understand that all words have a time and place? Foe example: when i'm working in a factory I don't give a flyin firetruck:) what people say. When I'm hangin around with my friends my language becomes more "colorful" but, when I am teaching I do not use nor do I allow my students to use "colorful" Language. Nor do I use it when I am in an otherwise public setting ie restraunts, theaters etc.
Time, location and audience should guide the proper language.
and if you don't like my opinion- go cuff yourself! Smile
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akaMechsmith
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 07:19 pm
Hi Frank et al,

"Dirty" language often gives me the same sardonic amusement as "dirty" pictures.

We can look at war, murder and mayhem on the tube all the time but let a human mammary gland be shown at half time on the Super Bowl all **** breaks loose Exclamation

Confused Confused

Frankly Smile I always considered strong language the recourse of a weak mind.
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 07:21 pm
I think freedom of speech comes into it.

If I went around all day saying kuf, kuffing, kuffer,
I might be thought mad, but no one would be offended. They are just sounds, made by my voice.

Why should *uck, *ucking *ucker be any different?


I tend to like characters that use sexual swear words to lighten a bad day. Beaver, in S.King's 'Dream Catcher' springs to mind.
He says, "*uck me, Freddie.... this is turning into a real *uckeroo."
Life can be like that and I couldn't put it better myself.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 07:51 pm
akaMechsmith wrote:
Hi Frank et al,

"Dirty" language often gives me the same sardonic amusement as "dirty" pictures.

We can look at war, murder and mayhem on the tube all the time but let a human mammary gland be shown at half time on the Super Bowl all **** breaks loose Exclamation

Confused Confused

Frankly Smile I always considered strong language the recourse of a weak mind.


Is that you, Mech????
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 07:55 pm
To err is human, to swear, divine.

----unknown
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