A MODEST PROPOSAL

@oralloy,

Well, you're allowed to have your opinions, but they seem to be generalizations and I prefer specifics and accuracy.

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Rubbish, there is only one reason and you know it.

"Everyone knows" is not an argument. You claim all kinds of things, but provide no particle of evidence to support any of it.

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@hightor,

hightor wrote:

States across the American South have closed nearly 1,200 polling places since the Supreme Court weakened a landmark voting-discrimination law in 2013, according to a report released by a civil-rights group on Tuesday.

...

Polling Places in Black Communities Continue to Close Ahead of November Elections

...

Closed voting sites hit minority counties harder for busy midterm elections

...

Polling places for urban voters of color would be cut under Texas Senate's version of voting bill being negotiated with House

I do not have you on ignore. As far as I know, I have only one presently active A2K poster on ignore. I am just busy and don't see everything, and then this thread was locked for a few days. Let's take the first of these.

hightor wrote:

States across the American South have closed nearly 1,200 polling places since the Supreme Court weakened a landmark voting-discrimination law in 2013, according to a report released by a civil-rights group on Tuesday.

You're simply guessing why the states mentioned in the article as having a history of discrimination closed certain polling locations. In fact:

"The US Eliminated Nearly 21,000 Election Day Poll Locations for 2020

Exclusive VICE News analysis shows a 20% cut in election locations nationwide, and much deeper cuts in California, Maryland, Kentucky, New Jersey, Nevada and North Dakota."

https://twitter.com/i/events/1319298122061893632

Apparently polling sites have closed down in lots of places.

2 Replies

@Brandon9000,

It appears Newsome and CA are racist.

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Your country is so f***d. Regressive. I worry for you.

0 Replies

@oralloy,

I concur.

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@Brandon9000,

2020 was a special case, though. Voting by mail was especially encouraged during the pandemic. As long as people can vote using secure absentee ballots or take advantage of early voting the discriminatory impact of closing polling stations can be somewhat offset. Since many polling stations were closed, ostensibly, for budgetary reasons, we'd need to investigate the conditions in each case to determine whether suppression was one of the motivating factors. The original Vice article however, does state:

Quote:

Almost 21,000 Election Day polling places have been eliminated heading into the 2020 U.S. election, a drastic dip in voting locations driven by a heavy shift to mail voting, coronavirus-related consolidations, cost-cutting measures, and voter suppression.

(...)

What emerged was a patchwork of cuts large and small across the country. Many states made these cuts as they were expanding mail voting — 23 states made it easier to vote by mail this year because of COVID. But the overall trend is clear: Most states are eliminating polling locations, a trend that could disproportionately impact poor, young and non-white voters.

vice

2 Replies

@hightor,

hightor wrote:

2020 was a special case, though. Voting by mail was especially encouraged during the pandemic. As long as people can vote using secure absentee ballots or take advantage of early voting the discriminatory impact of closing polling stations can be somewhat offset. Since many polling stations were closed, ostensibly, for budgetary reasons, we'd need to investigate the conditions in each case to determine whether suppression was one of the motivating factors. The original Vice article however, does state:

Quote:
Almost 21,000 Election Day polling places have been eliminated heading into the 2020 U.S. election, a drastic dip in voting locations driven by a heavy shift to mail voting, coronavirus-related consolidations, cost-cutting measures, and voter suppression.

(...)

What emerged was a patchwork of cuts large and small across the country. Many states made these cuts as they were expanding mail voting — 23 states made it easier to vote by mail this year because of COVID. But the overall trend is clear: Most states are eliminating polling locations, a trend that could disproportionately impact poor, young and non-white voters.

vice

Correct.

New Jersey has closed some polling spots...but New Jersey has also expanded the right to vote by mail...and expanded the ease with which it can be done. That is happening in some other blue states also.

Some of these red states, however, are closing polling spots...and making it much more difficult to vote by mail.

THEY ARE ATTEMPTING TO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO CAN VOTE...BECAUSE IT IS THE ONLY WAY THEIR CANDIDATES HAVE ANY CHANCE OF WINNING.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

THEY ARE ATTEMPTING TO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO CAN VOTE...BECAUSE IT IS THE ONLY WAY THEIR CANDIDATES HAVE ANY CHANCE OF WINNING.

The evidence is pretty conclusive, whether or not Brandon wishes to believe it is a matter of complete indifference on my part.

1 Reply

@hightor,

Good discussion, but I'm sick of this tired old cliche that conservatives are trying to suppress minority voting. I've never met anyone who would want such a thing. What we won't accept is election rules that allow anyone to cheat who feels like it, and the laws being introduced by conservatives are designed to fix that.

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

The evidence is pretty conclusive, whether or not Brandon wishes to believe it is a matter of complete indifference on my part.

Your posts are of no significance because you habitually make claims, offer zero evidence that any are true, and cry like a baby if anyone asks you to back up what you said.

1 Reply

@Brandon9000,

I think you are projecting.

2 Replies

@glitterbag,

He seems to think that we have to convince him in order to win the argument, but in order for him to win he just has to keep on believing bollocks.

He has issues. The obsession with winning and losing and setting his own rules for that isn’t healthy.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

He seems to think that we have to convince him in order to win the argument, but in order for him to win he just has to keep on believing bollocks.

He has issues. The obsession with winning and losing and setting his own rules for that isn’t healthy.

You're misstating my position. My position is not that you have to convince me. My position is that if someone makes an assertion but refuses to present a particle of evidence which indicates that it's true, his assertion is of no value, and if it's part of an argument, he loses the argument.

2 Replies

@Brandon9000,

In other words, the normal rules of intelligent debate.

0 Replies

@Brandon9000,

Brandon9000 wrote:

Good discussion, but I'm sick of this tired old cliche that conservatives are trying to suppress minority voting. I've never met anyone who would want such a thing. What we won't accept is election rules that allow anyone to cheat who feels like it, and the laws being introduced by conservatives are designed to fix that.

Bullshit, Brandon.

The laws being introduced by conservatives ARE designed to make it as difficult as possible for people who tend to vote for progressive candidates...to vote. "Minorities" in America tend to vote that way.

Your declaration that you have never met anyone who would want to suppress minority voting is so absurd, it is hilarious. You not only have met plenty...you are such a person.

1 Reply

@Brandon9000,

Quote:

What we won't accept is election rules that allow anyone to cheat who feels like it(...)

How does expanding early voting in polling stations or 24 hour voting allow people to cheat? It simply allows people more opportunity to vote. Do conservatives think that the right to vote should be purposely made inconvenient?

How exactly does cheating occur with absentee and postal ballots? I suppose nefarious criminal agents could produce tens of thousands of counterfeit ballots, copying all the security measures and all containing the individual identification codes for every single voter and then have these signed by volunteers who have copies of the signatures of each individual voter so that convincing forgeries can be achieved. This seems rather tedious. And easily detectable when ballot counters notice multiple ballots from an individual voter, as all ballots must be matched with the name of a registered voter.

And I know that official ballots are sometimes mistakenly sent to the addresses of dead voters. Besides being relatively easy to detect if someone were to try to use the ballot, how many of these ballots would even find their way into the hands of people who wish to commit voter fraud? Post offices regularly return undeliverable mail sent to people who no longer reside at a certain address. It's difficult to see how the ballots of dead voters could be used to significantly affect the results of an election. Any abuse would be prevented if more were invested in accurately monitoring, maintaining, and revising the official voter rolls.

And yes, I agree that it's possible that someone in a dysfunctional household might be compelled by someone else in the household to fill out a ballot in a certain way and sign it. However, it would be just as possible for someone in a dysfunctional household to simply forbid another household member to vote. One wonders how many members of these dysfunctional households are so civic-minded that they are invested enough in election results to actually commit voter fraud. I'm sure it happens, but not on the organized level necessary to affect election results.

Quote:

(...) and the laws being introduced by conservatives are designed to fix that.

Fix what? No evidence of widespread voter fraud has been produced in any of the last few presidential elections.

2 Replies

@Brandon9000,

Explain how longer voting hours makes it easier to vote.

As electoral fraud is such a problem in America you should give examples.

You are the one making an assertion, therefore you need to prove it.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Hitler has never been quoted saying anything specific about the Holocaust or the Final Solution, just general statements about Jews in general.

Therefore, according to Brandon’s logic he can’t have known anything about it.

The fact is when politicians, or anyone for that matter, behaves in a corrupt and/or criminal way they’re not going to make a big song and dance about it.

0 Replies

@glitterbag,

glitterbag wrote:

I think you are projecting.

You are wrong. He is not.

0 Replies

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