Re: as i said
Maximos1984 wrote:Steve .. As i said .. any muslim who hurt a hair of an innocent life .. he's out of the religon and everyone knows that's he's not muslim he's just claiming to be muslim and some how he's trying to give us a bad reputation for some political reasons!
Then why is Osama Bin Laden so incredibly popular with Muslims?
MSNBC I think. The story is how support for Osama Bin Laden is finally declining. However, it shows undeniably that maximos' theory, while I wish it was true, is incorrect. Overwhelming percentages of Muslims supported OBL and his terror attacks. Even though those numbers are declining, they are still staggering when you consider what they represent.
excerpt--
Fewer justify suicide bombings
In Lebanon, the number of people who think the use of suicide bombing and other forms of violence is justified in defense of Islam has dropped from 73 percent in the summer of 2002 to 39 percent now. Smaller drops were seen in Morocco, from 40 percent a year ago to 13 percent now, and in Pakistan and Indonesia. In Jordan, the number of people who feel such violence is justified has grown slightly; the number in Turkey remains very low.
7 out of 10 Muslims justified murder in the name of Islam in Lebanon. Now, 4 in 10.
Since March 2004, the sentiment for suicide bombing against Americans and their allies in Iraq dropped from 70 percent to 49 percent in Jordan, which neighbors Iraq, and dropped by smaller margins in Pakistan, Turkey, and Morocco.
Public confidence in bin Laden In Pakistan and Jordan, a majority of people continue to say they have at least some confidence in bin Laden, the Saudi leader of al-Qaida.
Causes of extremism vary
The reasons for Islamic extremism varied from one majority-Muslim country to the next. Poverty and lack of jobs were mentioned most often in some countries, while U.S. policies and influence were mentioned in others. Lack of education, immorality and lawlessness were also mentioned.
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That's enough to cause quite a backlash. I'm unemployed. I think I'll murder an American/Brit/...
Re: as i said
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:Maximos1984 wrote:Steve .. As i said .. any muslim who hurt a hair of an innocent life .. he's out of the religon and everyone knows that's he's not muslim he's just claiming to be muslim and some how he's trying to give us a bad reputation for some political reasons!
Now, I know Muslims and I have Muslim friends, but you cannot say that a person who thinks he is Muslim, but commits atrocious acts of violence is out of the religion and does not count as one of you.
Yes you can. Because a religion is composed of beliefs and behaviors that logically follow those beliefs. You can certainly say "this person practices the Muslim faith" or "this person does not practice the Muslim faith"
Jesus said "By their fruit you shall know them." in reference to discerning true followers of Christ.
The same is true of Muslims. You can say that a person either is or is not following the Muslim faith by observing his actions, since you cannot see into his head (or heart). It's a case of "what you do speaks so loudly I cannot hear what you say."
Just because a person says he is Muslim does not make him so.
Lash wrote:MSNBC I think. The story is how support for Osama Bin Laden is finally declining. However, it shows undeniably that maximos' theory, while I wish it was true, is incorrect. Overwhelming percentages of Muslims supported OBL and his terror attacks. Even though those numbers are declining, they are still staggering when you consider what they represent.
excerpt--
Fewer justify suicide bombings
In Lebanon, the number of people who think the use of suicide bombing and other forms of violence is justified in defense of Islam has dropped from 73 percent in the summer of 2002 to 39 percent now. Smaller drops were seen in Morocco, from 40 percent a year ago to 13 percent now, and in Pakistan and Indonesia. In Jordan, the number of people who feel such violence is justified has grown slightly; the number in Turkey remains very low.
7 out of 10 Muslims justified murder in the name of Islam in Lebanon. Now, 4 in 10.
Since March 2004, the sentiment for suicide bombing against Americans and their allies in Iraq dropped from 70 percent to 49 percent in Jordan, which neighbors Iraq, and dropped by smaller margins in Pakistan, Turkey, and Morocco.
Public confidence in bin Laden In Pakistan and Jordan, a majority of people continue to say they have at least some confidence in bin Laden, the Saudi leader of al-Qaida.
Causes of extremism vary
The reasons for Islamic extremism varied from one majority-Muslim country to the next. Poverty and lack of jobs were mentioned most often in some countries, while U.S. policies and influence were mentioned in others. Lack of education, immorality and lawlessness were also mentioned.
---------
That's enough to cause quite a backlash. I'm unemployed. I think I'll murder an American/Brit/...
Roughly half the population of india is muslim but I don't see any mention of them in your post.Is this an oversight or were you being selective? Or was it your source.Whatever it was it makes your point moot.
Re: as i said
real life wrote:Wolf_ODonnell wrote:Maximos1984 wrote:Steve .. As i said .. any muslim who hurt a hair of an innocent life .. he's out of the religon and everyone knows that's he's not muslim he's just claiming to be muslim and some how he's trying to give us a bad reputation for some political reasons!
Now, I know Muslims and I have Muslim friends, but you cannot say that a person who thinks he is Muslim, but commits atrocious acts of violence is out of the religion and does not count as one of you.
Yes you can. Because a religion is composed of beliefs and behaviors that logically follow those beliefs. You can certainly say "this person practices the Muslim faith" or "this person does not practice the Muslim faith"
Jesus said "By their fruit you shall know them." in reference to discerning true followers of Christ.
The same is true of Muslims. You can say that a person either is or is not following the Muslim faith by observing his actions, since you cannot see into his head (or heart). It's a case of "what you do speaks so loudly I cannot hear what you say."
Just because a person says he is Muslim does not make him so.
So, the KKK are not Christians then.
Lotsa wigglin' up in hyar.
My point isn't moot, Amigo. The stats I shared are accurate, no matter what other facts you may prefer.
If you'd like to bring in the stats on Indian Muslims' support, or lack thereof, for Osama--feel free to add them. But it doesn't erase the polls I brought.
Re: as i said
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:real life wrote:Wolf_ODonnell wrote:Maximos1984 wrote:Steve .. As i said .. any muslim who hurt a hair of an innocent life .. he's out of the religon and everyone knows that's he's not muslim he's just claiming to be muslim and some how he's trying to give us a bad reputation for some political reasons!
Now, I know Muslims and I have Muslim friends, but you cannot say that a person who thinks he is Muslim, but commits atrocious acts of violence is out of the religion and does not count as one of you.
Yes you can. Because a religion is composed of beliefs and behaviors that logically follow those beliefs. You can certainly say "this person practices the Muslim faith" or "this person does not practice the Muslim faith"
Jesus said "By their fruit you shall know them." in reference to discerning true followers of Christ.
The same is true of Muslims. You can say that a person either is or is not following the Muslim faith by observing his actions, since you cannot see into his head (or heart). It's a case of "what you do speaks so loudly I cannot hear what you say."
Just because a person says he is Muslim does not make him so.
So, the KKK are not Christians then.
Jesus said :
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven
Do they meet Jesus' definition of a Christian?
No one in the United States today meets Jesus' definition of a Christian.
I don't think you have to limit that to the United States.
Lash wrote:Lotsa wigglin' up in hyar.
My point isn't moot, Amigo. The stats I shared are accurate, no matter what other facts you may prefer.
If you'd like to bring in the stats on Indian Muslims' support, or lack thereof, for Osama--feel free to add them. But it doesn't erase the polls I brought.
Lash, I'm not gonna disagree with you just to disagree.Theres already enough of that going on. We should argue so that we both may become right. why are indian muslims not as violent as the ones in your stats. This fact does matter. What I prefer is that we both look at all the stats.Do you or don't you agree.
Yes. That's why I suggested you bring them.
ebrown_p wrote:No one in the United States today meets Jesus' definition of a Christian.
Do you know all of them? You must be omniscient.
Lash wrote:Lotsa wigglin' up in hyar.
My point isn't moot, Amigo. The stats I shared are accurate, no matter what other facts you may prefer.
If you'd like to bring in the stats on Indian Muslims' support, or lack thereof, for Osama--feel free to add them. But it doesn't erase the polls I brought.
How do stats on Indian Muslims support, Osama? Your point was that Osama is "incredibly popular with muslims".Half of india is muslim.Osama is not popular in India.This makes your point debatable and unproven(moot).It's a mistake to make enemies of the worlds muslim population but we might as well all we do in this war is make mistakes
You aren't reading carefully.
I didn't say statistics on Indian Muslims would support Osama--although they may... Why don't you bring a poll of Indian Muslims' opinions about OBL?
He HAS BEEN incredibly popular with Muslims, notably in the Middle East. I didn't make it up, I've read several polls. I am happy to see that support of that slimy murderer is falling, but that doesn't negate what it was---and what it still is.
If you'd like to dilute my statement by bringing a poll that shows low support of OBL by other Muslims, why don't you?
My point is not unproven until you disprove it. I have shown high levels of support for OBL by Middle Eastern Muslims.
It is a mistake by Muslims to make enemies with the world. The world didn't seek them out for revulsion.
I thought I'd post this letter to the editor of
our daily newspaper that was printed quite a few years ago. I copied it here for you.
Good will among men
Editor,
In the United States and the Western World religion is mainly identified with
Christianity. We would do well to realize that, in other parts of it, other religions, whose followers far outnumber Christians, dominate their part of the globe.
Over the centuries the rivalries and conflicts-often murderous- between different religious faiths (and the sects within them) have been an abomination in the sight of any God of justice, love, and mercy. Accordingly, it is a welcome sign of reformation that the great religions of the world, having moved from opposition and suspicion to an uneasy co-existence, are now seeking ultimate cooperation.
Last September there was a World Conference on Religion and Peace at Princeton Theological Seminary at Princeton, New Jersey, attended by 337 representatives of all the major historic faiths. Despite differences on theology, they agreed on what was called the Princeton Declaration that "All religions will increasingly cooperate in creating a responsible world community".
Why not? Despite their different creeds, all the main religions of the world have in common what Christians call The Golden Rule.
Christianity: "All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."
Judaism: "That which you hold as detestable do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Law: the rest is but commentary."
Islam: "None of you is a believer if he does not desire for his brother that which he desires for himself."
Brahmanism: "Such is the sum of duty: do not do to others that, which, to you, would do harm to yourself."
Buddhism: "Injure not others in the manner that would injure you."
Confucianism: "Here certainly is the golden maxim: do not do to others that which we do not want them to do to us."
Taoism: "Consider that your neighbor gains your gain and that your neighbor loses that which you lose."
Zoroastrainism: "That nature alone is good which checks itself from doing to others that which would not be good for itself."
At this season, which celebrates peace and good will, there is no more encouraging sign in the universe than that its great religions are beginning to educate their adherents in the ethical duty everyone has to the human race, namely, to believe in and work for a truly
neighborly world.
Peace, whether betwen religions or nations, will never be achieved by force or domination but only by mutual understanding and cooperation. Christians who celebrate Christmas by implementing their good will with good actions know their reward;
"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God."
