The Derek Chauvin Trial

@BillW,

Unfortunately, each time I see 'positive discrimination' in use - I see an entity (government or otherwise) highlighting differences between groups... when we should be highlighting the similarities (being the only way to actually overcome racism - where we see each other as the same, and therefore being equal). Highlighting differences, and acting on them, always results in:
- people seeing themselves as different
- people seeing others as different
Human instinct makes us (generally) uncomfortable with difference, hence the saying 'birds of a feather flock together'. This 'discomfort' is the root of all racism (extreme end of discomfort being hate and/or belief in superiority).

We should always strive to highlight the similarities. This is consistent with striving for black people to be treated equally to white people.

'Positive discrimination' should instead be re-written to: any group of person who <meet X criteria> are elligible to receive <Z> assistance. Or similar, where specific race etc is not what triggers the extra assistance.

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What Federal charges could he be facing? And wouldn't the sentences just be concurrent?

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@Mame,

Federally he faces charges for violating people's civil rights.

For civil rights violations against other people in other events, it would be reasonable for the sentences to be consecutive. However, I am not sure how much time would be added, because these other crimes are not nearly as severe.

For civil rights violations against George Floyd (the same crime/same event), it would be reasonable for the sentences to be concurrent.

However, I am not sure whether they will be concurrent or consecutive. It is extremely unusual for the feds to pursue a prosecution of the same crime after a successful state prosecution. I've never seen it happen, so I can't say what will actually happen. It may well be that the courts have yet to decide that question.

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@oralloy,

Thank you.

Have the Feds even decided that they'll press charges? It seems a little inane to me (money, time, etc) if the sentences (if handed down) are concurrent. Or is it more a message is being sent?

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@Mame,

I think they've decided to press charges.

I suppose one reason to do it is in case the courts end up striking down his state conviction, in which case the federal charges might still stand. It's pretty unusual though. Usually the feds only step in after state charges fail.

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@oralloy,

It may be that the case is so high profile, and there was such a history of complaints of excessive force against Chauvin that the Federal charges will be pursued:
- as a deterrance to other officers from racking up multiple complaints (if you get found guilty of a serious charge, we'll look at and prosecute any other similar complaints)
- as a deterrance to police departments (you're not actually doing your employees any favours by not addressing the cause of so many complaints);
- because there is a public interest in doing so (1. Maintaining confidence in justice - do they really ignore Chauvin's history after Floyd? Many will think it got swept under the carpet if it is not prosecuted. 2. the above two reasons)

Judges do sometimes hand down harsher sentences for their deterrance value. The charges may be for a similar reason - not strictly necessary, but able to be done, and so done for deterrance.

Edit: what would likely change things for the better is to introduce laws where:
- if a complaint was dismissed without substance (by the complaint investigators); and
- later a criminal charge for the same complaint is successful
- a court or independent body can determine if the investigator to be guilty of misconduct
- and apply sanctions or fines accordingly
Findings outside of criminal courts are held to the balance of probability standard, which is a lot lower than the criminal - so if a crime gets found to the criminal standard, where a complaint investigator allegedly could not find one to the civil standard, then there is usually a real problem.

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@vikorr,

vikorr wrote:

- as a deterrance to other officers from racking up multiple complaints (if you get found guilty of a serious charge, we'll look at and prosecute any other similar complaints)

Yes, but that's not what is questionable. I have no problem with them pursuing other violations that he may have committed.

What is questionable is prosecuting him a second time for the same violation that he was just sentenced for.

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@oralloy,

Is that even possible?

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@vikorr,

They're planning on doing it. I don't know who is going to stop them.

It's not clear whether the sentences will be consecutive or concurrent for the same crime.

If the sentences are concurrent (for the same crime) there should be no problem. But it hasn't been made clear that this is the case.

I'm wondering if this is a question that the courts have yet to even rule on.

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If he gets tried and convicted of federal charges, any sentence would not be served concurrently with his state time.

If sentenced federally, Chauvin would serve that time after the state sentence and moved to a federal prison, but any federal trial is not expected until next year.

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@snood,

Thank you. That clears up a lot of my questions.

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It's just speculation, but a couple of inmates being housed in the Minnesota State Prison System said this, when asked about Derek Chauvin's prospects for staying safe while serving his time.[bolded highlights are mine]

Quote:

Michael J. Moore, an author who is currently serving his own prison time, was much more direct in his prediction about Chauvin.

“Jeez, I hate to say this, but I would say that they’re probably going to try to kill him,” Moore said of Chauvin’s fellow inmates, insisting that most of them are in prison gangs that demand that type of violence.

“They’re going to [want to] send somebody to scatter [Chauvin], or a couple people to beat him up… the guys in here, they earn a lot of points, I guess you would say, with whatever his affiliation is for things like that,” Moore added.

It was not immediately clear whether Chauvin would serve any, some or all of his prison sentence in the prison’s “Administrative Control Unit (ACU)” — the equivalent of protective custody — or in general population. But another prison inmate serving a life sentence for murder at the same five-star maximum security facility where Chauvin is being held said it didn’t matter.

“First of all, he’s a cop. Then he did what he did,” Hannabal Shaddai told the Paradox news website during a recent phone conversation from Minnesota Correctional Facility at Oak Park Heights. “So it’s not safe for him to be here. Best case scenario for him is he’s going to get beat up a lot. I don’t think he’s safe in any prison population.”

https://newsone.com/4167227/derek-chauvin-sentencing-jail-justice/

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@snood,

That's not at all surprising.

I'm not sure what sort of protective systems they have over there, but if they aren't fully segregated, then there are problems. If I were a gang leader in prison for murder - the likely tactic if there is proper segregation & protection, and there'd be years to do it, is they'll start beating up inmates (either a volunteer who already hate cops, or someone who loves their family to death) to get them sent to protective custody - with orders to kill him when they get there. They (obviously) only need one successful attempt.

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@vikorr,

They can always find somebody who:

1) Has life without any chance of parole.
2) Hates prison more than remaining alive in prison.

This would be me if I was in this situation. Of course, I will never be in this situation.

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@vikorr,

I would think that the violent inmates would be in high security prisons, and that Mr. Chauvin would be in a prison for non-violent inmates.

If he does end up in protective custody, I think they keep inmates in protective custody separated from each other.

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I do believe that a murder that is:

1) Played out to all Americans will little to no care in regards to the person he is murdering,
2) Plus this person has done nothing violent,
3) Has complied with everything requested of him, and;
4) Has committed a non violent , low grade crime.

This crime is the height of a contemptuous, senseless, violent crime that deserves little or no softening of his situation or cockiness. This is a senseless, racially motive murder that needs the defendant to have to have a conscious effort to worry about his safety for the rest of his life - no matter where he is living it!

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

I would think that the violent inmates would be in high security prisons, and that Mr. Chauvin would be in a prison for non-violent inmates.

If he does end up in protective custody, I think they keep inmates in protective custody separated from each other.

They’re going to try to protect him. But if he spends a lot of time in a large facility with a big population, the inmates who want to kill or harm him only have to get to him once.

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@snood,

Hopefully in a prison for nonviolent inmates there won't be anyone who wishes to harm him.

If nothing else, such an act would mean their transfer to a high security prison for violent inmates.

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@BillW,

BillW wrote:

I do believe that a murder that is:
1) Played out to all Americans will little to no care in regards to the person he is murdering,

Keep in mind that he didn't realize that he was killing the guy. It's hard to care about something that you don't realize is happening.

BillW wrote:

3) Has complied with everything requested of him, and;

That is incorrect. George Floyd was actively resisting arrest.

BillW wrote:

This crime is the height of a contemptuous, senseless, violent crime that deserves little or no softening of his situation or cockiness.

Placing nonviolent inmates in prisons for nonviolent inmates is standard procedure.

Plus we as a society do have an obligation to protect people in prison.

BillW wrote:

This is a senseless, racially motive murder

That is incorrect. There was no racial motivation.

There was no motivation at all. The death was unintentional.

BillW wrote:

that needs the defendant to have to have a conscious effort to worry about his safety for the rest of his life - no matter where he is living it!

Such a punishment would not only be unconstitutional, it would go against everything that America stands for.

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Why does the uncompassionate person now have feeling for a ruthless murderer - Oh Yeah - he killed a black man in a cold blooded, dispassionate, uncaring manner on the night of the murder and every day ever since! ......and, bullshit to the rest of your tripe!

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The Derek Chauvin Trial

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