10
   

The Derek Chauvin Trial

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2021 03:28 pm
@snood,
I visited Slidel Lousiana for some short term work around 1970. Almost every person I spoke with had to get in some verbal shots at black people, even though it was never the topic. Heard some gruesome stories I never doubted.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  4  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2021 03:48 pm
@glitterbag,
Quote:
The racism in Louisiana is legend, it has to be stopped and I wish I knew how to do it.

Ensure body cameras are automatically downloaded, and complaints can be viewed by idependent third parties (perhaps free access to State level or Federal Level; or lawyers in a regulated way). Then increase the penalties for not reporting corruption / excessive use of force / misconduct by another officer


That would be a start anyway. And this suggestion would still likely take decades to fully filter through
revelette3
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 May, 2021 09:38 am
@vikorr,
Quote:
That would be a start anyway. And this suggestion would still likely take decades to fully filter through


Unfortunately that seems to be case. Every time we think we see some progress, it gets slapped down and two steps back for every step forward. I don't understand how the word's oppressors always seem to win no matter how enlightened we think we have become.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sat 22 May, 2021 09:43 am
The headline story on the US page f the BBC news website is about police in Tennessee mocking a dying man who also claimed he couldn’t breathe.

William Jennette was held down and suffocated to death a year ago. When he said he couldn’t breathe one of the officers replied, “You shouldn’t be able to breathe.”
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  3  
Reply Sat 22 May, 2021 03:44 pm
@revelette3,
Peoples attitudes in general take years to change.

Oh if people are forced to, all people can say the right things in public, but behind the scenes they tend to encourage their beliefs.

In a system like policing, where they would face adverse situations & attitudes on a daily basis - they would have to look internally for safety...and most would be mentally drained / cynical from the people they deal with...couple that with with the granting of a great deal of power & an understanding of how law and evidence works....and any ingrained culture in policing will always take much longer to change.

People are generally moulded by / a product of their environment - police are in fact, no different in this regard. If you want a different police force, you change the environment (particularly the reward / punishment system + the support & training systems) and/or find recruits who are already resilient, with strong principles.

revelette3
 
  2  
Reply Sun 23 May, 2021 11:01 am
@vikorr,
I read some interesting series of articles of conversations NYT has with folks concerning the anniversary of George Floyd's death. It is a lot of different ones and they may have more up until the 25th. I think for the most part, most believe there won't be any noticeable lasting changes in law enforcement with this generation. But maybe it is the very beginning. (or not)

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/21/opinion/young-americans-race-blm.html

(This article is part of a special section on George Floyd
and America, a year after his death. Read more about this project
in a note from deputy Opinion editor Patrick Healy in our Opinion Today newsletter.)
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Mon 24 May, 2021 01:37 pm
More on the Ronald Greene cover-up in Louisiana.

Quote:
NEW ORLEANS (AP) — In perhaps the strongest evidence yet of an attempted cover-up in the deadly 2019 arrest of Ronald Greene, the ranking Louisiana State Police officer at the scene falsely told internal investigators that the Black man was still a threat to flee after he was shackled, and he denied the existence of his own body camera video for nearly two years until it emerged just last month.

New state police documents obtained by The Associated Press show numerous inconsistencies between Lt. John Clary’s statements to detectives and the body camera footage he denied having. They add to growing evidence of obfuscation in Greene’s death, which the white troopers initially blamed on a car crash at the end of a high-speed chase and is now the subject of a federal civil rights investigation.

The highly secretive case has drawn national attention since last week, when the AP began publishing graphic body camera videos that showed troopers repeatedly jolting Greene with stun guns, putting him in a chokehold, punching him and dragging him by his ankle shackles. And like George Floyd’s death a year ago, it once again highlighted the importance of video as key evidence in police misconduct cases.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  3  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2021 01:23 pm
Remember Dylann Roof? He was the proud young white supremacist who went into a church in South Carolina and murdered nine people.

Well, he’s been sitting on death row since his conviction. But now his lawyers are trying to basically appeal on the grounds of insanity. They’re saying he wasn’t competent to stand trial, so he needs to be granted an appeal.
0 Replies
 
Tryagain
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2021 05:05 pm
@edgarblythe,




Whatever happened to:

Special Field Orders No. 15.

Headquarters Military Division of the Mississippi,
In the Field, Savannah, Ga., January 16, 1865.

I. The islands from Charleston south, the abandoned rice-fields along the rivers for thirty miles back from the sea, and the country bordering the Saint Johns River, Fla., are reserved and set apart for the settlement of the BLACKS now made free by the acts of war and the proclamation of the President of the United States.

Full details - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Field_Orders_No._15
0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 May, 2021 01:54 pm
Quote:
Murder charges filed against officers in Black man's death

— The Washington state attorney general on Thursday charged two Tacoma police officers with murder and one with manslaughter in the death of Manuel Ellis, a Black man who died after telling them he couldn’t breathe as he was being restrained.

Attorney General Bob Ferguson filed charges of second-degree murder against Christopher Burbank and Matthew Collins, and first-degree manslaughter against Timothy Rankine.

Witnesses reported seeing Burbank and Collins attack Ellis without provocation, according to a probable cause statement filed in Pierce County Superior Court, and Rankine is accused of putting pressure on Ellis’ back as the man said he couldn’t breathe.

Ellis, 33, was killed on March 3, 2020, just weeks before George Floyd’s death under the knee of a white Minneapolis police officer triggered a nationwide reckoning on race and policing. The Pierce County medical examiner called his death a homicide and attributed it to lack of oxygen from being restrained.

The death made Ellis’ name synonymous with pleas for justice at protests in the Pacific Northwest. His final words — “I can’t breathe, sir!” — were captured by a home security camera.

“Ellis was not fighting back,” the probable cause statement said. “All three civilian witnesses at the intersection ... state that they never saw Ellis strike at the officers.”

Five Tacoma officers have been on paid home leave pending the charging decision, and Ferguson said the investigation is continuing.

A Pierce County sheriff’s deputy who helped restrain Ellis, Sgt. Gary Sanders, was also a focus of the probe.

The encounter began after officers reported seeing Ellis trying to get into occupied cars at a red light. They cast Ellis as the aggressor, saying he charged as an officer exited a police car.

But two witnesses who recorded parts of the fatal interaction came forward with identical stories, saying police attacked without provocation. An officer in the passenger side of a patrol car slammed his door into Ellis, knocking him down, and then jumped on him and started beating him, they said.

Pierce County Sheriff Ed Troyer, who was at the time a detective and the spokesman for the sheriff’s office, said then that none of the officers placed a knee on Ellis’ neck or head. But one of the witness videos that later surfaced depicts just that.

The Pierce County Sheriff’s Office botched the initial investigation into Ellis’ death by failing to disclose for three months that one of its deputies had responded; state law requires independent investigations. The Washington State Patrol took over, and the Attorney General’s Office conducted its review based on evidence gathered by the patrol.

llis had a history of mental illness and addiction. In September 2019, he was found naked after trying to rob a fast food restaurant. A sheriff’s deputy subdued him with a Taser after he refused to remain down on the ground and charged toward law enforcement.

But his landlords at the sober housing where he was staying told The Seattle Times he had been doing well in recent months after embracing mental health care for his schizophrenia.

Ellis’ death, Pierce County’s botched investigation into it, and the national outcry for racial justice helped inspire Gov. Jay Inslee to convene a task force to suggest ways to guarantee independent reviews of police use of deadly force.

Last week, Inslee signed one of the nation’s most ambitious packages of police accountability legislation, including outright bans on police use of chokeholds, neck restraints and no-knock warrants. The legislation also makes it easier to decertify police for bad acts — and creates an independent office to review deadly force cases.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/murder-charges-filed-against-officers-in-black-man-s-death/ar-AAKsc7c?ocid=msedgdhp
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 May, 2021 12:20 pm
Here's what open carry, no license required means to me.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article229227114.html?fbclid=IwAR2-JwWzsU4BAx3P2k-XhkFVgsrM1wj4dMECQC1hLrEtGvSY927iIhgeeZE
According to something I read, NC is a no license required to carry a weapon state
snood
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 May, 2021 12:27 pm
@edgarblythe,
Oh, it’s definitely going to lead to more scared cops shooting more black people. Because when they pass this new law making guns even more accessible, cops will have even easier excuses for shooting because they’re “in fear for their lives”.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2021 01:33 am
@edgarblythe,
Anyone under constant threat from firearms is going to be trigger happy. If that is the environment you work it - it will shape / influence you and how you do things while in that environment. So I agree that free carry creates an environmental issue that is likely to lead to more shootings by police.

Each incident should always be judged on its own merits. Only after it is judged on its own merits can it truly become elligible for discussion of wider patterns (otherwise you can't tell where it fits and if it properly belongs).

I watched that video, and it seemed absolutely bizarre to me that the guy with the gun didn't put his gun on the ground way earlier, put his hands in the air way earlier etc. It seems absolutely bizarre that he didn't look in the cops direction etc. Given the informantion they received on the way there, his weapon and his behaviour, I can't say in that split second, that I wouldn't have feared for the life of the fellow in the driver seat.

That said, if their directions to put the gun down was going to result in him getting shot purely from the movement of putting the gun down - then their communication was ****. At the same time, I'd not be surprised by tunnel vision / fixation on the most dangerous issue...but that is also what training is for. Then again, the amount of training that would be required to overcome many/most peoples instincts (focus on the threat) would be fairly extreme (by sheer nature of how much practice it takes to overcome instinct/ingrained habit in high stress situations). If you take cops off the road for as long as I guess it would take each year to ensure their communication is good in such situation...there'd need to be a lot more police officers. Sadly, this type of argument/rationale seems to come down, again, to budget issues.

Most of the other things I've seen on this thread have horrified me. This one, I think I understand.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2021 07:16 am
You can't tell me how to react in a situation in which I know the officer pointing his gun is on hair-trigger alert, because I am not my normal self when I know people just like myself get shot for next to nothing practically every day. The knowledge and the fear can freeze up the system so that the disconnect of mind and body can be construed as failure to comply when it's actually inability to respond because any movement can result in death.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2021 12:35 pm
@edgarblythe,
Where did I tell you how to react? I was explaning why I think I understand their actions.

Nor would I describe what the guy was doing as 'next to nothing'. Next to nothing doesn't involve making threats while armed, walking around a carpark with a gun.

Bizarre I think is the correct word - as it is so far out of the normal. Not 'wrong', but so far out of the normal. It is of course, possible that with explanation that it would have become understandable. But that luxury would not have faced the officers, who would have to deal with the most immediate problem first - as a handgun takes less than a second to (likely) kill someone at close range.

But to re-iterate, the communicatin could have been nuch better (see my previous post)
BillW
 
  2  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2021 10:45 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr, I do not believe edgar was being personal to you in his post but, instead, was making a general a.general.at.large comment.

I have had an experience in my life of the situation presented and I wasn't trigger crazy. Probably because at the time I did not have a weapon in my possession. I didn't make that mistake again.

The situation was also not as forgiving because it was war. He lost his life unnecessarily - all because I think he just wanted to take one of his enemy with him to balance the score. He didn't and could have lived if only he played the game correctly!

Fortunately, I wasn't out there alone or I may have been the only casualty!
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2021 10:52 pm
@BillW,
I have not made any personal remarks on this thread. If we can't tell our minds without hurting others' feelings I'm sorry.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2021 11:30 pm
@vikorr,
You were commenting on the behaviour of the victim which you described as bizarre.

I think Edgar was just commenting that unless you’d been in exactly the same situation you wouldn’t know how to react.

I once had a near miss with a car, it just missed me but hit the bagof shopping I was carrying.

People say I should have taken the number plate, but by the time I’d gathered myself the car was long gone.

Beforehand I was sure I would have taken the number.
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 May, 2021 12:48 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
I think Edgar was just commenting that unless you’d been in exactly the same situation you wouldn’t know how to react.
No problem with this at all, hence the qualifier that I added (after explaining how I found it bizarre).
vikorr wrote:
It is of course, possible that with explanation that it would have become understandable.

Even in less stressful situations, we don't always behave as others think we should. Many will remember the 'A dingo stole my baby' case from the 1980's. Many were sure the mother was a killer because she was so stony faced in court...years later they found the babies clothing miles away, but they had given only a 2 minute window for the deed to be done...and then a few years ago, dingoes on Fraser Island did take a baby from a campsite, only the baby cried out, saving its life https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/current-affairs/couple-who-had-toddler-taken-by-dingoes-tell-all-after-fraser-island-nightmare/news-story/53a3abdee94bd699df6ac90c8772d0a2
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 30 May, 2021 01:05 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:
Even in less stressful situations, we don't always behave as others think we should.

Exactly!

It is surprising to hear you say that since you so often act as if you don't understand it.

Your condemnation of people based on your ridiculous proclamations of how they should think/behave has truly been a horror.
 

 
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