Reply
Wed 13 Jul, 2005 11:44 pm
Today my girlfriend calls me and explains to me that she just witnessed someone die. I guess I would have to explain, to get my point across.
So here is the short, sad story:
It was raining hard and fast. As Tiffany was driving in this rainstorm, she saw this SUV pull out of an intersection. This SUV dashed across three lanes of traffic. The drive almost hit Tiffany and a few other cars.
Sometime after that, this top-heavy vehicle seemed to hit a water puddle and hydroplaned. The SUV lost control and drove its way down into a deep ditch. On the way, the driver applied his brakes. According to Tiffany, this didn't really seem to help much.
The SUV finally stopped, after it rammed into a tree.
After all this excitement, Tiffany pulled over in the middle of the rain and she ran down into the ditch to help this young man. While she was opening the door and asking the driver if he was hurt, she was on the phone with the 911 operator.
This young man was bleeding from his mouth and nose. He kept saying that he was hurting. Long story short - The ambulance arrived on the scene too late. They did explain to Tiff that this guy died because of internal bleeding. As if this guy's body lunged forward and his chest hit the steering wheel, causing his internal organs to bleed.
Here are a few important items to note. The driver was wearing a seat belt. The air bags never deployed. This accident only involved one person and one vehicle. The death was quick. Plus, this accident took place in bad weather. And, it appears this was the result of some bad decision-making.
Now onto my naïve question of a higher power
As Tiff was explaining this to me, the only real thought I had running through my mind was this: This seems like an isolated incident.
As I hear all of this, in my mind I keep thinking that this is the result of a vindictive God of Action, offing someone that just disrespected Him. I know that I'm not really in the authority to think of such things. But I don't know that I really want to help it. I am really starting to wonder if God really does meddle in some folk's lives.
It is documented in the Book of Job that God does, for a lack of a better phrase, pick on people. Or, God does allow evil spirits to make trouble for mortals. But, I am taught that this only happens at His approval. So either way, God is ultimately responsible.
I am not even just speaking on the terms of life or death either, but also even just the little things. The little inconveniences that make our life miserable. What about that flat tire you get on your way to work? Who is responsible for all of the road rage that is driving up the cost of automobile insurance? Who is to blame for the crooked politics that make our government a joking matter? Who? Tell me who!
I know that we are human. I know that we are intelligent, self-aware creatures that do have the ability to make our own decisions. I am aware of this thing called free will.
I guess I am pulling my logic from the concept of prayer. If we have the ability to ask God to manipulate life for us, for the better; then what is not to say that He is not going to manipulate our life for the worse? Even if this power is used responsibly, for punishment reasons.
I do believe that everything that happens here on Earth is not out of God's "plan." I use the word "plan" as opposed to the word "will" or "grace." I think it would be foolish to think that some things are out of His Divine control.
I also think that whatever system is in place to allow all of these fortunes and misfortunes happen, are within my grasp of understanding.
Also, this article is written out of pure interest, not out of spite. So please only serious, respectful replies please.
People die because they do stupid things, because they were unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, from disease, for lots of reasons. Many of them are better human beings than others who live to a ripe old age despite outright blasphemy and criminal acts.
I thought we were long past the point of condemning victims for some alleged sin such as "disrespecting God." But once again, ingrained superstition trumps science and logic.
If there is a God who meddles in human affairs, why does he fail to answer the prayers of his most faithful followers, fail to alleviate pain and suffering, fail to correct the design flaws in the human body, fail to show himself to the majority of the people in the world, and send calamity, disease, and death to the good and wicked alike?
Your Divine Meddler does not seem to be very good at its job.
One viewpoint:
If G-d is G-d, then He can indeed do all that you think of Him.
Nonetheless, it would seem that applying human motivations would not be accurate. Why would G-d, the Creator of the Universe, possibly want to "hurt" or "punish" people. It doesn't seem entirely reasonable, given the scenario.
However, if G-d is actually a Higher Being; has greater conciousness; is of a higher dimension; is that much more than we are by His very nature of being omiscient; etcetera, then I would posulate that He has different motivations than we do.
One possible scenario: Life, death, pain, joy, suffering, happiness, etcetera, is not the be all and end all. This material world may simply be a training ground for a person's soul. It may simply be that their are different opportunities to develop in this world that are not found in the non-material world, whatever that might mean.
Therefore, the things that happen to us or, in this case, that G-d does to us, are simply tools, training scenarios for us to learn something and improve upon what is essential for the next world.
An analogy might be akin to spanking a child. When you punish a child, he or she might well be convinced that you are a monster and he or she is determined that they are going to hate you for the rest of your life, because you have acted so unreasonably bad towards them. However, in time, with greater awareness, they may discover that the action that they were being punished for is life threatening and you were actually try to instill in them a fear of repeating that action because you love them.
G-d could simply be doing this on a higher level in a far more complicated and incomprehensible manner, which we are not going to understand until we reach another level of consciousness...
Just a thought....
Terry wrote:People die because they do stupid things, because they were unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, from disease, for lots of reasons. Many of them are better human beings than others who live to a ripe old age despite outright blasphemy and criminal acts.
I thought we were long past the point of condemning victims for some alleged sin such as "disrespecting God." But once again, ingrained superstition trumps science and logic.
If there is a God who meddles in human affairs, why does he fail to answer the prayers of his most faithful followers, fail to alleviate pain and suffering, fail to correct the design flaws in the human body, fail to show himself to the majority of the people in the world, and send calamity, disease, and death to the good and wicked alike?
Your Divine Meddler does not seem to be very good at its job.
God answers prayer because He is good and gracious, not because we have been good enough to earn an answer from Him.
If we expect God to do something because we've chalked up points with Him, we can expect disappointment instead.
If hell disappeared on satuday the church would be empty on sunday.Thats real life.
pssst, hey Amigo, pass the word...
farmerman, glad to see we agree on something,last time you had some strong words for me.
Amigo wrote:If hell disappeared on satuday the church would be empty on sunday.Thats real life.
There is no such thing a roasting toasting baking broiling hell. The bible does not support the idea. So you are safe.
Neologist, I don't understand.Is this realy true.
Amigo wrote:Neologist, I don't understand.Is this realy true.
I've brought this up before. I'll try to find the posts. Meantimes, think of this: When Adam and Eve were told by God not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, what was to be the punishment for disobedience? Answer: death.
If God had anything else in mind, don't you think it would have been fair to warn them of that as well?
Hence a very wise man wrote about the condition of the dead:
Solomon wrote:For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun. (Ecclesiastes 9: 5,6)
That is not to say there is not hope of a resurrection.
I'm unconvinced but will keep my mind and heart open
Amigo wrote:I'm unconvinced but will keep my mind and heart open
ditto (Im such a copy 'cat' amigo)
Do you really believe the concept of eternal punishment in hell fits in with the definition of God as 'love'?
neologist wrote:Do you really believe the concept of eternal punishment in hell fits in with the definition of God as 'love'?
No. the concept doesn't fit in. thats the problem. I change my mind. A loving God doesn't mean hes not a just god.I'm confusing myself.
For centuries the religious elite have manipulated the scriptures to maintain control over the masses. The bible, however, is straightforward if you are willing to expend some effort in learning it.
neologist wrote:For centuries the religious elite have manipulated the scriptures to maintain control over the masses. The bible, however, is straightforward if you are willing to expend some effort in learning it.
I agree with you on this post, but it can be argued that the manipulation started with Constantinople and the very construction of the Christian Bible.
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:neologist wrote:For centuries the religious elite have manipulated the scriptures to maintain control over the masses. The bible, however, is straightforward if you are willing to expend some effort in learning it.
I agree with you on this post, but it can be argued that the manipulation started with Constantinople and the very construction of the Christian Bible.
Very astute post. I'll get back to it.
Whether or not it can be argued that even the Old Testament was manipulated back in the days of its creation is another matter altogether, one that I cannot answer.
Not my point. Somehow we would have to satisfy ourselves (if possible) that God protected His word so it could be passed on to us.
The history of early Christianity and selection of the bible canon is interesting and should be studied with the same degree of skepticism as shown by the Beroeans (Acts 17:11)
Stumble It!
Tweet This
Bookmark on Delicious
Share on Facebook
Share on MySpace