Constructive voices coming from Antifa?

Not sure why you're thanking me, but ok, whatever.

And this is the problem, you only want to talk about "the left" being responsible for any violence, making out like it's only "the left" committing violent acts. This simply isn't true.

Yes, there are people "on the left" (as you put it) that are just, and to use Izzy's words, "opportunist criminals" who are not there to legitimately protest. But there are also trump supporters going to the same protests in pickup trucks committing acts of violence on otherwise peaceful protesters, along with taking the law into their own hands, which isn't any better, and in fact only makes the situation far more hostile and dangerous for all concerned. And those same people are also not there to peacefully protest anymore than those taking advantage of the situation to loot and burn down businesses.

So the facts are that there are people on BOTH sides engaging in violence, just for different reasons and targeting different people. And when you add guns to the mix, well it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out what comes next. And arguably, it's mostly trump supporters/far right that are committing the bulk of the violence against other protesters, and are the most heavily armed of the two sides.

But you continue to frame it like it's only nutcases "on the left" that are causing any problems, this isn't the whole story, and is downright false. This is where consistency and sincerity come in, and more precisely, where you are neither. This is what you need to change if you want people to believe you. Rather than just repeating "I'm voting for biden!", "only biden can fix it!", and similar.

In the end, and as I was saying before, it's not going to be policy and making new laws alone that's going to bring about lasting change. If that was going to work, your country wouldn't have the problems it has anymore. The same as just electing someone else isn't going to change much by itself. The actual problems existed well before trump took office, and therefore trump is really just a symptom of long standing problems. About the only thing electing biden will do to solve anything is give the USA a chance to deal with the problems, but more will need to be done - empty words ain't going to change ****.

This is the either/or fallacy again.

- There are angry voices on the left who are justifying violence. There are protesters who associate themselves with the left who are setting fires.

- There are angry voices on the right who are promoting White Supremacy, justifying violence and committing violent crimes against protesters.

These are both true.

I don't get what you think this is a about JustAGuy. I state my opinions. I lay out my arguments and my facts. Some people find my posts interesting. Some people find my posts infuriating. Some people ignore my posts. I have the most fun here when I can engage with someone who disagrees with me in what I consider to be a thoughtful discussion. Sometimes I learn things.

I also enjoy my little feud with Izzy and his minions (and I include you in this group). But they aren't looking for intelligent discussion, they are looking to throw insults around. I don't mind having my fun here either. And Izzy is kind of a foil for me... he works as an example for some of the points I want to make about political extremes.

If you ever want to engage me in a thoughtful discussion, I am all for it. If you think I am too much of an idiot... or a troll... or whatever other insulting term you want to use, then I suppose that isn't possible.

But all this talk about whether I am "credible" or whether people "believe me" or whether I am "fooling anyone" is meaningless. I don't care. I am here to have interactions that either interest me (for people who attempt a thoughtful discussion) or amuse me (for people who don't).

So far, you have amused me. And I thank you for that.

The only fallacy here is the idea that you are somehow a "centrist", and not a complete hypocrite.

In any case, you have just repeated what I already said above above being this:



...or did you somehow miss that part?

And as for your "This is the either/or fallacy again." argument, consider this code:



Now consider this output:



So much for your bullshit...

The only one banging on about either or is you.

That’s not the point.

You are condemning violence perpetrated by rioters but turning a blind eye to that performed by right wing extremists.

It’s not a case of either or, it’s about even handedness, andyou’re not showing any.

In many ways you’re like J Goldman, he ignores inconvenient questions too.

You have my curiosity. Exactly what point do you think you are making with that code?

- You define left as absolutely true.
- You define right as absolutely false.

The punchline seems to be that absolute truth and absolute falsity can't both be true.

I don't really get your point.

Damn shame that we do not teach in depth history in this nation for the most part.

Every thing that is happening in the US had happen before to other nations and other people over recorded history.

As far as violence groups from the right and left beginning to fight real battles in our cities that is nothing new.

See the blood shed of the 30s in the streets of Germany as the last large scale example of such an event.

Hopefully that in the end we will be found to be stable enough to recover from this without going down to our destruction.

History? It’s Geography that’s the problem. Just before Dubya’s invasion of Iraq the Guardian asked 100 New Yorkers to pinpoint Iraq on a map of the World. Only six got it right, more people put a pin in Canada.

That’s right Canada, and we’re not talking about some backwater we’re talking about NYC. **** knows what the rest of the country is like.

Yes there are large large holes in the US educational model in many areas.

The US may as a result paid a large large price as we allow one demagogue after another to take power by using the same old tactic that was old at the time of Rome.

How is the English education system as I had always hear nice things about the English system.

I don’t think many would mistake Canada for Iraq.

The shocking thing is that you’re the most powerful country on the planet, yet most of the electorate has no understanding or interest in what is being done in their name all over the globe.

After 9/11, there was a collective outcry as to why a group of people could have wanted to attack America in the first place.

That’s what happens when the population doesn’t take an interest in what its leaders are doing internationally.

What get me over 911 is that most of the attackers was from Saudi Arabian the nation that the US had stop Iraq who at the times was a regional superpower from being an ongoing threat to them an on their border after they took Kuwait.

That’s not how they saw it. They saw infidels occupying Holy Lands which was far more of a concern than Kuwait being invaded by another Muslim country.

Let’s face it Saudi Arabia was never under threat of invasion.

Apparently Bin Laden offered the services of Al Qaida to the Saudis, fighting a guerrilla war.

It’s not a huge leap to think a group like that would want to take some sort of action. Straight after the attack pundits were saying it was Bin Laden because his was the only group that would want to do something like that.

Wow, a sock puppet account just for my benefit.

Thanks but to US people it hardly made sense to be so annoyed that you pull off the 911 attack due to the troops that had been call in by your own government to protect them and did in fact removed the threat happen to be mainly of another faith, In fact another people of the book for that matter.

Next other then the US who would had stop or even slow down Iraq from taking the rest of the region oil fields?

LOL you are an important person.

Can you not just see how Trump would do in that quiz!!!!!!!!

I know, you failed to understand the Arab mindset, which is all well and good if you’re not doing business with Arabs, but America was, and is, doing a **** ton.

At least before Trump we feel and to a large degree are the modern version of Rome and if you wish to do business with Rome you do it on Rome terms.

footnote when the English Empire was on top from what I am aware of you guys had the same altitude. IZZ this is not an attack on your nation but a simple statement of human nature as I see it. Hell Izz was it not a fairly low level british colonel that draw the layout of the middle East nations?

Rome fell, people saw Rome as the invader.

Footnote, when Britain had an empire its citizens knew their Geography.