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Mental Health & Spirituality

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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Tue 7 Jul, 2020 02:53 pm
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

Hi .....And for that reason I do not make a guess....Interesting......i.e. And for that reason I will not roll the dice.The thing is, if one isn’t prepared to roll the dice where does one go from there? My view is that this is the point whereby one refuses to play the nihilistic game any further.....but then what’s left and how does this impact on ones mental reasonings.How does one move on?


I do not understand what you are saying here.

You claim you are not making a guess.

But, earlier, you mentioned your Christian beliefs.

Those are guesses about the issue.

So...what are you saying?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Tue 7 Jul, 2020 02:54 pm
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:

I know that the Spiritual world exists
I know that God exists.
I know that God is a personal God
I know that God has established a personal relationship with me.
I know that this happened when I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior.


You do not KNOW any of those things.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Tue 7 Jul, 2020 02:57 pm
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

Ok,apologies,but what is your point? are you saying that I need to sit on the fence and be more open minded to anything that goes? I want to know where you are going with your reasonings.


No. I am saying quite the opposite. Let's do this again.

1) Many people who are absolutely certain of their beliefs are also unwilling to honestly question their beliefs. They are also unwilling to look at things from any other perspective.

2) There are other people who are certain of their beliefs but are still willing to question and willing to consider things from other points of view.

3) People in the first category can be any religion or belief system; Christian, Buddhist, Muslim or Atheist (and Frank is forcing me to put Agnostic on the list). The psychology works the same in any case.

4) There are psychological benefits to being absolutely certain and unwilling to question. This has been measured scientifically.

Quite the contrary... I am saying that you don't need to be more open-minded, as least as far as mental health goes.
0 Replies
 
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Tue 7 Jul, 2020 03:01 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You are wrong. I know that they are ALL true.
Jasper10
 
  1  
Tue 7 Jul, 2020 03:05 pm
@Jasper10,
I have moved on from these reasonings which I never signed on to because I never believed for one minute that I was a robot.There is more to us than that.Some people don’t seem to be able to move on though.
0 Replies
 
Jasper10
 
  1  
Tue 7 Jul, 2020 03:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
What I am saying is that dualistic/double minded thinking is related to the physical.It plays the toss the coin game.This line of reasoning doesn’t provide a definite answer one way or the other.If you only believe in the physical and refuse to play this game, what else have you got?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Tue 7 Jul, 2020 03:41 pm
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

What I am saying is that dualistic/double minded thinking is related to the physical.It plays the toss the coin game.This line of reasoning doesn’t provide a definite answer one way or the other.If you only believe in the physical and refuse to play this game, what else have you got?


It is actually not tossing a coin. It more like picking one card from a deck of hundreds of cards.

You are probably a Christian because that is the religion you are exposed to. If you are White, not Jewish and live the US, Christianity is the obvious religion for you. You have probably never studied under a Hindu priest, a Jewish Rabbi, or a Muslim Imam.

It is just the luck of the draw, if you were born in India, you would probably be Hindu and feel just as strongly.

There are far more than two choices.

Jasper10
 
  1  
Tue 7 Jul, 2020 03:57 pm
@maxdancona,
I don’t agree with you on that one.Its black and white and only black and white.I believe in one God and one God only.Its perfection or imperfection.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Tue 7 Jul, 2020 04:08 pm
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

I don’t agree with you on that one.Its black and white and only black and white.I believe in one God and one God only.Its perfection or imperfection.


You are absolutely certain. You are not willing to question. You are not willing to see things from other perspectives. This is exactly what Erikson defined as "identity foreclosed" (which is a definition, not a statement of fact).

As I keep saying, the fact is that this has mental health benefits (no matter what your religion is).
Jasper10
 
  1  
Tue 7 Jul, 2020 04:33 pm
@maxdancona,
I am absolutely certain for a reason though and you are correct it does have huge benefits mentally.I have moved on from the dualistic mindset into new understandings which I feel at peace with.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Tue 7 Jul, 2020 06:21 pm
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

I am absolutely certain for a reason though and you are correct it does have huge benefits mentally.I have moved on from the dualistic mindset into new understandings which I feel at peace with.


The only point I am trying to make that when it comes to mental health, your belief is what is important. Which religion you happen to believe in doesn't matter. I am only saying this in terms mental health. Hindus and Muslims feel the same way that you feel and get the same mental health benefits.

A friend of mine is a Hindu. He talks about his religion the same way that you talk about yours.
Jasper10
 
  1  
Wed 8 Jul, 2020 12:06 am
@maxdancona,
Ok,I get where you are coming from now.Mmmm..My point is that there is only one truth,there are not multiple truths or multiple ways to that truth.When it comes to mental health there is two equal but opposing views in the individuals mind debate.When it comes to belief in a higher power the atheists own mind debaters both agree to agree that there is no such thing and the individual is at peace with this output.An ignorant peace, but ok some kind of peace.The agnostics debaters however can’t agree to agree on this same point and is not at peace.The individual that finds true peace has both its debaters agreeing and is at peace but it is not like the atheists peace.It is different because the individual can move on from the dualistic mindset.
justaguy2
 
  1  
Wed 8 Jul, 2020 04:03 am
@NealNealNeal,
No, you don't KNOW that... you believe that.
0 Replies
 
justaguy2
 
  2  
Wed 8 Jul, 2020 04:16 am
@NealNealNeal,
No, Frank is *not* "wrong".

Either you don't understand the difference between a "belief" and a proven "fact" and/or you're being willfully ignorant (I suspect the latter).

A "belief" does not require any proof. "Religion" and the existence of what you call "god" are prime examples of a "belief". Because you cannot prove any of it, but you can once again still believe it's true in the absence of what we call "proof".

A "fact" CAN be proven. For example, it's a FACT that there is such a thing as "gravity", and this can be proven. And all you need to do to prove it is jump in the air and you will fall back down towards the ground. Because if it didn't exist, you would still be floating in mid-air instead. Pretty simple.

PS: It's pretty sad that even has to be explained to you...
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 8 Jul, 2020 04:37 am
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

What I am saying is that dualistic/double minded thinking is related to the physical.It plays the toss the coin game.This line of reasoning doesn’t provide a definite answer one way or the other.If you only believe in the physical and refuse to play this game, what else have you got?


Jasper...are you saying that you do make a guess on the question of "the existence of a god" or are you saying you do not make a guess on the question of "the existence of a god?"

You seem to have answered that question YES in one place and NO in another.

I am just trying to figure out which is your answer.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 8 Jul, 2020 04:38 am
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

I don’t agree with you on that one.Its black and white and only black and white.I believe in one God and one God only.Its perfection or imperfection.


Here you seem to be saying you have made a guess.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Wed 8 Jul, 2020 04:39 am
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

Ok,I get where you are coming from now.Mmmm..My point is that there is only one truth,there are not multiple truths or multiple ways to that truth.When it comes to mental health there is two equal but opposing views in the individuals mind debate.When it comes to belief in a higher power the atheists own mind debaters both agree to agree that there is no such thing and the individual is at peace with this output.An ignorant peace, but ok some kind of peace.The agnostics debaters however can’t agree to agree on this same point and is not at peace.The individual that finds true peace has both its debaters agreeing and is at peace but it is not like the atheists peace.It is different because the individual can move on from the dualistic mindset.


Wow...and you claim to be open minded???

C'mon.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Wed 8 Jul, 2020 04:43 am
@justaguy2,
justaguy2 wrote:


No, Frank is *not* "wrong".

Either you don't understand the difference between a "belief" and a proven "fact" and/or you're being willfully ignorant (I suspect the latter).

A "belief" does not require any proof. "Religion" and the existence of what you call "god" are prime examples of a "belief". Because you cannot prove any of it, but you can once again still believe it's true in the absence of what we call "proof".

A "fact" CAN be proven. For example, it's a FACT that there is such a thing as "gravity", and this can be proven. And all you need to do to prove it is jump in the air and you will fall back down towards the ground. Because if it didn't exist, you would still be floating in mid-air instead. Pretty simple.

PS: It's pretty sad that even has to be explained to you...


Thank you, Just.

I decided to suspend discussion with him on this point, because once a person decides to insist "I KNOW there is a god" (or "I KNOW there are no gods")...realistic discussion pretty much ceases.

Not sure what is going on with him, but I will be surprised if you make any headway.
0 Replies
 
Jasper10
 
  1  
Wed 8 Jul, 2020 05:33 am
@Frank Apisa,
I know what you are saying but open mindedness is defined as what? Is it case of spending your whole life jumping to this conclusion and that conclusion not being able to get a definitive conclusion on anything.If someone has a definitive view then that should be good shouldn’t it? It’s already been said that it has huge mental benefits...It does have in my opinion.The point I am making is why is it wrong ? I am totally open minded to the view that if at any point my belief system is unfounded then I will review things again ...but as yet I am at peace with where I am at.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 8 Jul, 2020 07:12 am
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

I know what you are saying but open mindedness is defined as what? Is it case of spending your whole life jumping to this conclusion and that conclusion not being able to get a definitive conclusion on anything.If someone has a definitive view then that should be good shouldn’t it? It’s already been said that it has huge mental benefits...It does have in my opinion.The point I am making is why is it wrong ? I am totally open minded to the view that if at any point my belief system is unfounded then I will review things again ...but as yet I am at peace with where I am at.


Stay safe, Jasper.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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