Mental Health & Spirituality

@maxdancona,

Well in answer to your post I don’t agree with any of the four statements really because I do know what I believe and I am open minded enough to know from experience that one can grow mentally and spiritually by discovering how ones mind and consciousness works.Scientist tend to search outwards only as in the material world for their “evidences” but neglect the fact that the answers are within.I can meditate on all that scientist have discovered with regard to black holes/quantum etc and put a whole different interpretation on it.

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@Jasper10,

Jasper10 wrote:

Well in answer to your post I don’t agree with any of the four statements really because I do know what I believe and I am open minded enough to know from experience that one can grow mentally and spiritually by discovering how ones mind and consciousness works.Scientist tend to search outwards only as in the material world for their “evidences” but neglect the fact that the answers are within.I can meditate on all that scientist have discovered with regard to black holes/quantum etc and put a whole different interpretation on it.

"Open-minded" means that you are willing to stop being a Christian if you find evidence that means Christianity no longer makes sense. Or, that you will change your idea of what being a Christian means if there is good evidence that this is what you should do.

If you are willing to put your belief in Christianity at stake, then you are in #4.

I would say the same thing to Buddhists, Muslims or atheists.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

The famous Psychologist Erickson wrote about this based on his research.

He outlined for stages developing an identity (in my own weird paraphrase).

1. You don't know what you believe and you don't care.
2. You don't know what you believe and you are open-minded about it.
3. You do know what you believe, but you are open-minded and will change if new evidence comes along.
4. You do know what you believe, and you are closed-minded. You aren't open to new evidence and nothing will make you change your mind.

When I first read about this, I said... #4 (I believe the technical term is identity foreclosure) is a bad place to be. Who wants to be closed-minded.

But I found research that says that people who are "foreclosed" around religious beliefs (i.e. they are stuck on a belief and are unwilling to change no matter what) have less stress and higher measures of happiness.

Apparently being closed-minded and religious can have mental health benefits if that is what you want. Go figure.

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@maxdancona,

Just because some one comes up with four deep statements,it doesn’t mean they are true.These statements aren’t true...they are just views of one individual.Why would I want to stop being a Christian if what I discover totally reinforces my beliefs?

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@Jasper10,

You are a Christian and everything you find "totally reinforces" your beliefs. A Muslim would find that everything "totally reinforces" her Muslim beliefs. A Buddhist would find that everything "totally reinforces" their Buddhist beliefs.

Erickson is setting up a definition (it is not something that is true or false).

You have strong religious beliefs that you are unwilling to honestly question because you are so certain that your beliefs are true. You meet the definition of "identity foreclosed" (as well as countless Buddhists and Muslims and Atheists like you). This is a "definition" not a statement of fact.

A fact is something that can be tested (i.e. there is a way to prove that it is wrong). The fact is that there are mental health benefits to being "identity foreclosed" in lower stress and increased measurements of happiness.

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@maxdancona,

But that is just an individual’s view...that’s all it is...I am more open minded than that view.

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@Jasper10,

There is blissful ignorance and blissful awareness.I prefer the latter.

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@Jasper10,

Jasper10 wrote:

There is blissful ignorance and blissful awareness.I prefer the latter.

They are the same thing. A Buddhist's blissful awareness is ignorance to you.

The blissful part is the key here.

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@maxdancona,

Satan wants to keep people from a personal relationship with God. He will do whatever it takes to achieve this. If he can use Buddhism to do this he will.

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@maxdancona,

The 4 off statements you referred to earlier just sum up how the carnal mind works which leads to nihilism.Thats all.If you remain embroiled within the carnal mind then you will be totally influenced by it.This is the main problem people who aren’t spiritual have with understanding the concepts.They don’t see themselves as anything more than skin and bones and all the other slimy stuff.Their blissful ignorance prevents them from seeing anything’s else.

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@Jasper10,

Read Hebrews 4:12.This refers to a division or separation of the spirit;body and soul.One has to see oneself as separate from our physical bodies.One reaches this point when the penny drops that we live in a double minded biological machine that plays devils advocate with itself and can go no further than a nihilistic view point.

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Did you intend this as an interesting discussion about "mental health and Spirituality", or just another thread promoting a specific religion. I want to talk about the psychology here (the "my religion is the bestest" blather isn't interesting to anyone).

I am defining a term; "confident but open minded" (this corresponds to #3 in my original list). It has the following two criteria.

1) I am confident that my beliefs are correct... but I am willing to consider the possibility that I might be wrong. If I learn new evidence that shows that my beliefs are wrong, I will change them.

2) I am confident that my beliefs are correct... but I am willing to look at them from other points of view accepting that we are all human beings. I understand and accept that other human beings have different beliefs with the same confidence that I have.

I am curious if you think "confident but open minded" is a good attitude for a Christian to have?

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@maxdancona,

How do you know that these discussions aren’t interesting to someone? Anyway,I believe it is important for a Christian to be confident in his/her faith yes.Open to new ideas...of course.

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@Jasper10,

But where are you going with this line of reasoning other than a nihilistic view point that bores me to tears.Please reassure me we aren’t going down that cul de sac...

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Did you intend this as an interesting discussion about "mental health and Spirituality", or just another thread promoting a specific religion. I want to talk about the psychology here (the "my religion is the bestest" blather isn't interesting to anyone).

I am defining a term; "confident but open minded" (this corresponds to #3 in my original list). It has the following two criteria.

1) I am confident that my beliefs are correct... but I am willing to consider the possibility that I might be wrong. If I learn new evidence that shows that my beliefs are wrong, I will change them.

2) I am confident that my beliefs are correct... but I am willing to look at them from other points of view accepting that we are all human beings. I understand and accept that other human beings have different beliefs with the same confidence that I have.

I am curious if you think "confident but open minded" is a good attitude for a Christian to have?

If what you said here is true, Max...you might consider what I KNOW to be true; determine if it is also true for you; and see if you cannot incorporate it into something more definitive than you now express.

I KNOW that I do not know if gods exist or not;

I KNOW that I see no reason to suspect gods CANNOT EXIST (that the existence of a GOD or gods is impossible);

I KNOW that I see no reason to suspect that gods MUST EXIST (that at least one god is needed to explain existence);

I KNOW that I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction;

And I KNOW...for that reason, I do not make a guess.

Especially the first three...which I see as applicable to everyone except people who are deluded.

I think the fourth is almost certain for EVERYONE.

The fifth seems to come as a matter of logic.

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@Frank Apisa,

Hi .....And for that reason I do not make a guess....Interesting......i.e. And for that reason I will not roll the dice.The thing is, if one isn’t prepared to roll the dice where does one go from there? My view is that this is the point whereby one refuses to play the nihilistic game any further.....but then what’s left and how does this impact on ones mental reasonings.How does one move on?

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@Jasper10,

Jasper10 wrote:

But where are you going with this line of reasoning other than a nihilistic view point that bores me to tears.Please reassure me we aren’t going down that cul de sac...

You started this thread called "Mental Health & Spirituality". I seem to be the only person interested in the topic.

There are lots of threads about why Christianity is the one true religion. If this was just going to be another one of those threads, you could have said that from the beginning.

The first topic interests me (which is why I am here). The second topic has been done incessantly. Where you being less than truthful in starting this thread?

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@maxdancona,

Ok,apologies,but what is your point? are you saying that I need to sit on the fence and be more open minded to anything that goes? I want to know where you are going with your reasonings.

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@Frank Apisa,

I know that the Spiritual world exists
I know that God exists.
I know that God is a personal God
I know that God has established a personal relationship with me.
I know that this happened when I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior.

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@Jasper10,

My point is that when it comes to mental health and spirituality if you think deep enough there is always a neutralising effect.One will ultimately get to the position whereby one concludes that right is wrong and wrong is right...that there is no such thing as morality... that nothing matters etc etc etc..For me anyway this comes across as very robotic and machine like.Forget the religious angle.If one wants evidence there is your evidence.One only has to walk down the cul de sac far enough and that’s where you will end up.This doesn’t prove God exists or doesn’t exist but it’s evidence enough for me to be machine like which is very interesting to me on a spiritual level.

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