HOLOCAUST BELIEVER + HOLOCAUST DENIER = HOLOCAUST AGNOSTIC

If the answer to a query exposes a personal fault, so what, I will admit that fault. I would rather be transparent than a promoter of a historical 'fact' that 'occurred' solely for profit. In the early 2000s Menachem Begin said that there were STILL 1,000,.000 Holocaust survivors living. If you are in the Life Insurance field, do the math do extrapolate how many Holocaust survivors must have been living 55 years earlier!??????!!!! It is not rocket science, just truth, unclothed. The whole saga is an exercise in duplicity and greed. And imprisonment becomes the weapon to keep that truth at bay. I DARE any Jew to counter what I have said. I don't hate Jews. I HATE lies.

Single body crematoria, in numbers which speak more to attrition than mass murder are THE compelling evidence. How long does it take to fully cremate ONE human body. (one and one half hours). Multiply that by 6,000,000 and you will have the lie served up to you, posthaste.

RED CROSS was embedded in all camps. Don't you think that they would have 'noticed' six million being mass murdered??????????? The idiocy which the hoi polloi is willing to eat is astounding.

If the Nazis were so reviled by the Jews, why, when the liberation of Auschwitz was about to be liberated by the Russians, did the Jews CHOOSE to return to Germany with the Nazis instead of the Russians????? - David Lyga

Holocaust deniers eat excrement willingly. To them it tastes like ice cream. This explains their stench.

However, this forum supports free speech. I, for one, by reading such excrements, am made aware that there are creatures on this earth that actually believe this insanity.

Well, Mr Ragman, in honesty, I do not feel that I deserve to be called that.

My feelings are sincere about the Holocaust and I remain an agnostic on the issue, ready to change my understanding if the facts, warranting such, manifest. (My ego is not at stake here.) However, when I see impenetrable faults with the logic of the narrative, I say something about it, as any thinking person should (that is, one who has decided not to be owned by the pressure tactics geared to obviate, misconstrue, and mitigate those facts).

Your heavily biased feelings, however, seem never to acknowledge that there are real contradictions standing in the way of your facile contempt for me. I do not feel that I have earned or deserved that opprobrium, sir. However, you are still a human worthy of a generic respect. It is just that I cannot find myself as being in a garbage pit. Happily, I think of myself as being above that banter.

With this narrative there is no room to be taken as prisoners among the doubters. This shallow, one-sided approach leaves no room for honest, forthright debate. ALL crime scenes should be subject to retrospective investigation. With "Holocaust" there is no ability to do so. Instead, "Holocaust" has become a quasi-religious experience which owes its vitality to faith and political moxie, alone. To say that if I do not accept those parameters I am then a troll worse than a devil is utter dross. Hardly, sir. You err with your self-centered thinking. I feel that I do have the right to question if the objective logic propels me to do just that. Why is that sane mental determination so very bad? That mental paradigm is followed in everything else which is held to be sacrosanct in our society. And, as a result of this inquiry, we benefit as a culture.- David Lyga

Before leveling your criticisms on someone for doubting something, why don't you analyze my post and tell me where I got it wrong. And when you fail to do that, consider the odor that will be surrounding you persona.

Look, I still respect Mr Ragman, but I will say that, Holocaust aside, he is encountering trouble in this world and he will be the main one to suffer for that deviance.

To presume that one who questions an event (because facts do not align) is a disgusting component of humanity is to venture out onto a dangerous precipice. Mr Ragman has to ameliorate his rant from a character assassinating scatological mindset to one which heralds a lofty (but intense) debate which does not venture onto the pathway of ad hominem attacks like his childish rant did. He can still make his point, but to assume that I am a being of filth because my viewpoint does not coalesce with his is dead wrong, deadly biased, and deadly self-immolating. Mr Ragman, perhaps you are heralding your upbringing and impartng that lack of familial decorum to many. Please think about this during your next Yom Kippur..

Mr Ragman, did you ever wonder why the State of Israel does not wish to acknowledge the mass genocide of Armenians? Or are you so solely occupied in your thoughts with, and indebted to, the "chosen" people (because you were taught in your insular, social environment that no one else really matters)?

Mr Ragman, these are valid questions from someone the same age as I am. They should be thought about on more than this Forum. - David Lyga

I get that. No one likes to have one of the building blocks that make up their pyramid of facts threatened. Their fear is that further consideration of certain matters will expose yet more weaknesses in the narrative. With no counter argument, their only alternative is to attack the voice that speaks of falsehoods.

Yes, Glenn, but I am not about to trample on Mr Ragman. Instead, I would like to help him to understand that NO TOPIC should be above reproach. NONE. It seems that the Holocaust is the sole exception ... and if I can destroy that exception before I die, my life will have been worthwhile.

How many people wish to call me a Jew hater!!!!! Or an idiot. Or one who is anti-Semitic. None of those pejoratives is true but the legal apparatus (jail time for deniers) and social opprobrium for the ones on 'free speech' countries are formidable weapons waged in the war on logic.

There are people like Glenn and there are people like Mr Ragman. However, although you know whom I wish to embrace, I hold out a peace flag for the other. I simply refuse to hate. Period. And, Glenn, you are a master of decorum and reason which hopefully will be recognized by the reviews of your sane posts. Not getting one's way gives one a golden opportunity to grow from within rather than simplistically and selfishly attack others' characters. I would like to grow to a point where I could respect Mr Ragman's but he will first have to match his chronological years with a sagacious and fair mind. - David Lyga

Holocaust deniers always focus on the gas chambers as if that is the only way the Nazis carried out the genocide.

They didn’t, many Jewish people were worked and starved to death in the factories. There were other mass killings like the Baba Yar massacre.

And over 91 Jewish people were killed during Kristallnacht, before the war or the final solution even started.

There is a huge amount of evidence that the Holocaust did happen, from the accounts of British soldiers liberating Belsen to the evidence at the Nuremberg trials and the testimony of survivors.

Nobody is seriously trying to say that the Nazis did not persecute Jewish people, so we end up with a numbers game, they dispute the numbers killed.

Even if the official estimation is wrong, and only half that amount died does that make everything alright? It’s still a huge amount regardless, it’s no less a crime.

The motivation for all of this is anti-Semitism. There is no good reason for any of it.

As an outspoken supporter of Palestinian self determination I have to say I find this attitude disgusting. It’s counter productive, Israel keeps the diaspora in line by using the threat of anti-Semitism, stifling criticism and making a two state solution far less likely.

If everything goes tits up Israel is a safe haven which is why many of the diaspora feel it has to be supported no matter what. When Mr Lyga starts a thread like this he is telling the diaspora that Netanyahu is right, that the World is anti-Semitic and the existence of Israel is the only thing stopping another Holocaust from happening.

All of this makes the possibility of an independent free Palestine even more remote, which is the reason why Netanyahu cosied up to virulent anti Semites like Hungarian premier Viktor Orban.

David Lyga mentions the treatment of the Palestinians a great deal while doing his level best to see that they remain under occupation.

Instead of having some sort of suffering competition where various genocides are compared with one another to see who suffered the most, we should be doing our level best to end discrimination so something like this never happens again.

Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians has nothing to do with the Holocaust, however it is constantly used to justify Holocaust denial. Other genocides do not mitigate the affects of the Holocaust either, and other victims of Nazi murders, most notably the Roma people, should not be used to lessen the impact of the Holocaust itself.

I notice that while Mr Lyga complains that he should not have to feel sorry for Jews, he does not say the same about other victims, like Armenians or Roma.

It’s a false comparison, nobody is trying to get Mr Lyga to feel sorry for Armenians or Roma, or Jewish people for that matter, all people are trying to do is get him to accept facts.

His anti-Semitism is prompted by jealousy. Due to his homosexuality and Agnosticism he tries to portray himself as a victim, but nobody is buying it.

The real victims are those who were killed in the Holocaust and because Lyga is such a narcissist he is jealous so he spreads lies and disinformation.

He claims to be in his seventies but acts like he’s never finished adolescence.

It’s quite pathetic.

Israel has offered the Palestinians a two-state solution based on 1967 borders many times. Unfortunately the Palestinians have always refused the offers.



All the Palestinians need to do is agree to peace when it is offered and they will have their independent free state.

I normally only reply to parts of a post that I disagree with, but just for the record I agree with what you said about the Holocaust.

That is a lie and you know it.

It’s what I expect from someone who gives Holocaust deniers a free pass.

You and I both know that you ignored Carlos Le Baron’s Holocaust Denial.

I even pointed it out to you, on more than one occasion, and you refused to criticise your Holocaust denying mate.

And because you’re a coward you lie about that as well.

Like Lyga you are motivated by hate.

You and the Holocaust deniers are the only ones here who are lying.

Well, I'm not a denier. But no one seems to care that the story of zyklon B falls flat on its face. You can tell yourself that though you were lied to about that aspect of the narrative, that's probably the only time you've been lied to concerning . . . things, but I prefer to research things and not just parrot what I've been schooled to parrot.

Rubbish, you’re another attention seeking bigot.

And you’re still full of ****.

You are a Holocaust denier, just too much of a coward to admit it.

Rubbish!

You're just another poster who's angry because you can't refute the contents of my post. And instead of admitting your deficiency, you've decided you'd get more peace of mind dealing with your deficiency by taking it out on me.

However, what I wrote was true. And once again, I have your inability to refute any of it as evidence that you're just mad about having it pointed out to you.

You are someone who focuses on one aspect of the Holocaust and extrapolates that to the absurd.

What you won’t acknowledge is what motivated you to question the Holocaust in the first place.

There are no good reasons why somebody would do that. And there are plenty of hate sites with plenty of pseudo science for someone like you to lap up.

You don’t win arguments, you wear people down with your tiresome repetitive nonsense and your insistence that everybody answer your questions.

Glitterbag hit the nail on the head, people don’t argue with you because there’s no point, you repeat the same things over and over again. You put words in people’s mouths and accuse them of opinions you’ve just made up. It’s like talking to a child.

Now you can believe what you like, but the truth of the matter is you’re really not worth the time and effort.

And what is it that you believe I've said about the Holocaust that is absurd?

So far I've pointed out that the story about Zyklon-B being the agent that was used to gas people appears to be false on its face. You don't like it when something you've believed for so long turns out to be . . . less than the truth. And taking it out on me won't change any of the facts I've put in front of your face.

Well it's the only way I know of to get an answer out of someone who won't answer. Maybe if you stop repeating your silence . . .

Uh huh. Perhaps that's because you, and people like you, keep repeating your silence when you can't refute something I've said. I know that you and some others would prefer to talk past my point. However, not addressing any of post kind of says it all?

The 'numbers game' was not started by gentiles, madam. And if this Holocaust was so evil, why did not it get even cursory mention in Churchill's volumes and volumes and volumes about WWII. Ditto, DeGaulle, Stalin, Eisenhower. To me, those omissions are more than significant.

The American Jewish Committee said that there were more Jews, worldwide, in 1948, than there were in 1938!!! This says quite something in that 40% of the "lost" Jews was something that that Committee seems not to have cared a whit about. Perhaps your desperate need to denigrate me, Miss Push, provides the foundation for your invective. And I do resent being called anti-Semitic when all I am doing is relating facts.

The Red Cross was completely embedded into the camps. Why did they not protest as they "saw" the mass murder of Jews????

The flimsy door to the Auschwitz "gas chamber" would have killed the Nazi personnel as well, as there was no sealant, no provision for protecting those OUTSIDE of the chamber. The single pane glass window on that Auschwitz door is almost laughable, as well. Out of 6,000,000 Jews being gassed, not ONE smashed that window?????? Why do I bring up the "gas chamber", Miss Push? Because the Jews never stop screaming about it, that is why.

When Menachem Begin said at the turn of the 21st century that there were 1,000,000 Holocaust survivors still living, how many must have been living fifty-five long years before 2000? About 6,000,000? Good statistical guess, Miss Push!!!

The Holocaust deniers always focus upon the gas chambers because the Jews never stop talking about them, Never. Never, Never. And the way the Israelis treat the Palestinians, who were living in Palestine for 1,000 years, in complete harmony with Jews, speaks powerfully of the duplicity of the self-promoting Zionist, that same Zionist who supported and defended the Armenian genocide at the highest levels of the Turkish government. Miss Push, do you consider that statement to be anti-Semitic? If you do, then take your issue with the Times of Israel who wrote about this disgusting course of evens in their 7 SEP 2018 issue, without covering up the infamy in order to make these Zionist Jews seem less guilty. The link is here and, hopefully, will not be removed by the moderator:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/before-the-holocaust-ottoman-jews-supported-the-armenian-genocides-architect/

If the link does get removed, you have the date and publication. Try calling the Times of Israel anti-Semitic, Miss Pushy Push. Try calling the Jewish-owned New York Times anti-Semitic, Miss Push. I don't get pushed around by people who are duplicitous. I DO get pushed around by people who convince me of my errors. You have not made a dent, Miss Push. - David Lyga

Oh, and two other 'trivial' matters:

Why was Hitler's best friend, Emil Maurice, an unrepentant, non-self-hating Jew, both driver and bodyguard for Hitler? And why did Emil Maurice remain an SS soldier throughout the War, at Hitler's insistence, despite Himmler's objections? And why were there 150,000 Jewish soldiers in the SS, many of whom held high SS leadership positions?

When Auschwitz was about to be liberated by the Russians, the Nazis asked the Jews: Would you rather wait to be liberated by the Russians or would you rather go back to Germany, now, with us? The Jews chose to go with the Nazis. Why, Oh sagacious Miss Push? Were not the Nazis the very embodiment of evil??? Why did the Jews suddenly trust them???

You ask me why the number 6 million matters so much, and state that half as many would also be as bad. But 3 million would not have been as much a financial burden that Germany had to pay out in order to cultivate the deception and line the pockets of "Holocaust Survivors". Thus, the Jews retain the 6 million figure in order to guarantee there place in history (or, more appropriately and accurately, their singular level of "histrionics").

Miss Push, your PUTSCH does not work with David Lyga. You need better weapons in your endless arsenal. But fear not: the Zionist is at the ready to aid your ad hominem assassination of David Lyga. - David Lyga

So what is it that get off on about the Nazis then, all the shiny leather boots and lederhosen?

You’re clutching at straws trying to justify your hate. The treatment of one individual of mixed heritage, declared an honorary aryan, who had a personal connection to Hitler is irrelevant when compared to all the anti jewish legislation enacted by the Nazi regime.

And like all hucksters you make grandiose comparisons by referencing Churchill of all people.

Actually, I’ll give you that, you are like Churchill, not Winston though, the dog who sells car insurance.

“Oh yes.”

Could we also talk about all the anti-Palestinian legislation enacted by Israel to counter the people who were living there for the past 1,000 years?

And, Churchill, "of all people", is not exactly trivial in stature. - David Lyga