HOLOCAUST BELIEVER + HOLOCAUST DENIER = HOLOCAUST AGNOSTIC

Yes. Beyond that, there are various alleged witnesses who claim that gas chamber executions at Auschwitz took anywhere from instantaneous to twenty minutes. However, the most reliable sources for determining how long a gassing took from start to finish would be the physicians who ordered and supervised the gassings. There is a video (it has been removed) whose author has found four former physicians in Auschwitz who have made statements in that regard. Their names are Dr. Hans Munch, Dr. Horst Fischer, Dr. Friedrich Entress, and Dr. johann Paul Kremer. One gives a time of 3 to 5 minutes; one gives a time of 2 to 5 minutes; one gives a time of 5 minutes; and one gives a time of "some minutes." Keep in mind that in U.S. execution chambers, it took 10 minutes to terminate a prisoner.

Now, according to Professor Dr. Fritz Habor, it takes twice the poison to kill in half the time. With U.S. executions, it took 10 minutes at 0.32% hydrogen cyanide per volume. That means that in order for the 5 minute time frame given for Auschwitz gas chambers to be plausible, a 0.64% hydrogen cyanide per volume would be required. The problem is that zyklon-B does not act at all like the cyanide powder mixed with sulphuric acid used in U.S. execution chambers where the bulk of the poison gas develops instantly. Zyklon-B was developed to release the poison slowly. This was done for two reasons. Firstly, to allow those who were spreading it around inside an area to have time to do so and then get out without being harmed. And secondly, to release the poison continuously for an hour or more, which was for the purpose of compensating for leakage and absorbtion in moisture. The hydrogen cyanide used for fumigation in the camps used gypsum as a carrier substance; analysis of zyklon-B left behind by german authorities at Auschwitz confirm this.

There was a paper written in 1942 that discusses how fast hydrogen cyanide evaporates from the gypsum carrier pellets. The author, Richard Irmscher, was a researcher who worked at developing and improving zyklon-B. A chart taken from Irmscher's paper shows how fast the hydrogen cyanide evaporates from the zyklon-B. It shows that, in 5 minutes at 15 degrees celsius with the pellets spread out evenly as during delousing, 10% is released. Now, in a chamber packed with people, the temperature would have risen substantially, and the relative humidity would have been 100% in little time. The higher humidity would cause the condensation of moisture on the gypsum pellets. Hydrogen cyanide is so water soluble that once the carrier material is wet, the release of gas would be even slower.

Then we have a guy named David Cole who Interviewed Dr. Franciszek Piper who was the director of the Auschwitz State Museum. During that interview, Piper was asked why the residue count was high in the delousing chambers, but low in the homicidal chambers. He said the Zyklon B was operated a very short time, about 20 or 30 minutes during 24 hours, and in the disinfestation rooms it operated the whole day and night. Such was the procedure of using gas in the disinfestation rooms and gas chambers. That bespeaks one mass gassing per day. That contradicts eyewitness testimonies which speak of repeated homicidal gassings going on day and night. So, the question is: Could the high death rate at the camp have occured if the gas chambers were used only twenty or thirty minutes during 24 hours as Piper claims they were?

The New York Times published an article about a book by Jean-Claude Pressac. The book was written to refute revisionists. New York Times writer Richard Bernstein writes that according to Pressac, "it would have been necessary for the extermination rooms to have been emptied of corpses and refilled with new victims every half hour or so, as would have been necessary for such a large number of victims."

So, what we have here is a contradiction. It is claimed that limited use of the chambers explains the lack of residue. However, limited gassing contradicts eye-witnesses and makes the high gassing-death rate technically impossible. By attempting to support one part of the Holocaust story, Piper disproves another part.

Let's move on.

In a series of interviews with Shlomo Venezia, a survivor of the Auschwitz Sonderkommando, Venezia said that the Sonderkommando units were comprised of Jews who cleaned up the gas chambers after a group of prisoners had been murdered. After its personnel dragged the corpses out of the chamber--as Venezia states, this in and of itself was an extremely disturbing process, as it was initially difficult to disentangle the bodies--the room had to be cleaned. All traces of blood and excrement had to be washed away in order to present a clean, sterile, and hence worry-free environment to the next batch of victims. After completing this task, the men of the Sonderkommando then moved through the corpses, clipping hair or pulling out gold teeth before disposing of the bodies in industrial furnaces. The expertise that the Germans acquired in carrying out mass murder was soon passed on to the men manning the Sonderkommando units.


However, Bill Armontrout, was an expert witness at the second Ernst Zundel trial in Toronto. He was warden of the Missouri State Penitentiary, which includes an execution gas chamber. He said, "One of the things that cyanide gas does, it goes in the pores of your skin. You hose the body down, see. You have to use rubber gloves, and you hose the body down to decontaminate it before you do anything else."

In court, Armontrout testified to the safety precautions that were necessary to prevent those who handled the dead criminal's body from being poisoned by the deadly HCN themselves. He said, "The ventilation fan ran for approximately one hour before two officers equipped with Scott air-packs could open the hatch of the gas chamber and remove the lead bucket containing the cyanide residue. The two officers wore rubberized disposable clothing and long rubber gloves. They hosed down the condemned man's body in the chair, paying particular attention to the hair and the clothing because of the cyanide residue, then removed him and placed him on a gurney where further decontamination took place."

So, if the Zyklon B was weak and known to be slow in its release, then the mass-gassings could not have occurred as we have been told. On the other hand, if the Zyklon B was adequate to the task, and quickly released (which it wasn't), then the testimony of surviving Sonderkommandos appear to be fictitious.

First note this: ANYONE who poses questions which refute, question or even wonder about the fantastical assessments made by the Holocaust religion are subjected to (in some countries) heavy fines or prison. In countries which STILL regard free speech as sacrosanct (US, UK) in order to make up for this lack of objective punishment, there is social ridicule, opprobrium, outright hatred (please remember jcboy's "Wack Job" assessment of David Lyga) or even worse.

You MUST obey this religion and there is no compromise. David Lyga is a bonafide 'nothing', with nothing to lose. So, in a way, that gives me a certain freedom to ask questions without undue burden or angst.

Let me pose a rational hypothetical situation which asks my readers to divorce themselves for a mere 30 seconds from the passion and politics of Holocaust. (This is even more difficult an endeavor than asking a Millennial to stop looking at his or her (NOT 'their') mobile phone for the same 30 seconds, but, with yeomen's effort my readers can accomplish this feat.)

OK, we have a Martian probing this fantastic planet called Earth and he is traveling in the past, from about 1940 - 1945 and focused upon the 'death camps' in Europe. Now, he KNOWS that there is an obligation to murder, purposefully, 6,000,000 human beings AT THESE CAMPS and he KNOWS that the opposing side, the Allies, fly WEEKLY RECONNAISSANCE FLIGHTS over these camps. This Martian does not take sides because, to him (or 'her', for the defiant, uncompromising women's lib crowd, or 'it/they' for the even MORE defiant transgender crowd) these deaths are like deaths of mosquitoes. Besides, morality for the Martian is a concept that is not understood, as he is mired into objective thinking, only. He does not adhere to a religion or a sense of political correctness.

The Martian keeps observing and seeing not much happening. This observation is FULLY CORROBORATED BY THE ALLIES ALSO, OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, thus seeing nothing unusual to report to their respective commanders. Thus, in this regard, there is a synergy of thought between the Martian and the Allies. The Martian returns home after FIVE YEARS and reports that there was nothing indicative of a mass murder ... and also that his report is corroborated by the opposing side.

If anyone can show me HOW a mass murder of 6,000,000 took place in these camps that person will have done more for the study of physics than Albert Einstein did. If distills into something as simple as that, but to target this simplicity you must first shake off this religious fervor.

Glennn's assessment of the inadequacy of the promoted methods of gassing victims is as valuable as it is hated by almost all of these readers; readers who are tethered to wishful thinking, promotion of Israel, and other self-serving ways of thinking. In a Holocaust discussion. FACTS MEAN NOTHING, GLENNN'S OR OTHERS'. This assessment is VERY IMPORTANT TO NOTE AND WILLFULLY ADMIT.

Neither Glennn nor David Lyga hate Jews, but both of us have a dire problem being forced to believe that which makes NO SENSE. - David Lyga

QUESTION: Am I anti-Semitic for saying the following?

A man (Ottoman lawyer) by the name of Emmanuel Carasso, from Salonika (while Turkish, before it passed to Greece), initiated the Young Turk movement which deposed the Turkish Sultan Abdul-Hamid in 1908 and overtook the Turkish government.

These Young Turks had no shortage of Jews in their organization and planned the genocide of Armenians to further Turkish hegemony within Palestine and elsewhere in the Ottoman empire. As a result (and this is be BEFORE Ataturk), from 1915 to 1922, one and a half million Armenians were purposely and systematically slaughtered in order to cleanse the area of Christians and, therefore, make Palestine that much closer for Jewish ownership. All it took to finalize this plot was to gain the acceptance of the British. Then, the wanton killing of Palestinians began.

Now, the history books usually do not state this as succinctly; they usually let Israel weasel its way out of any facsimile of direct implication. But, folks, facts are facts and reality is reality. TO THIS DAY ISRAEL CONTINUES TO WEASEL ITS WAY OUT OF ANY NEXUS IN THIS MATTER. Of course, the nation was not formalized until 1948, but the Zionists who started it had a long history in the mid-East.

But, the reader's job right now is to, again, castigate me, disavow any truths I disseminate, call me anti-Semitic, and generally ignore what I have just said for the sole purpose of being able to call Jews, yet again, the immortal victim. - David Lyga

I asked you one thing and one thing only and you have been fleeing from it ever since. You claim that every one of the camps had certain facilities for the inmates. Okay, back up your claim. Give evidence that Auschwitz, one of the biggest camps, had the facilities you claim. If you're in the right, then why don't you just answer? And by answer, I mean answer this question, not ten questions I didn't ask. Give one particle of evidence that these facilities existed at Auschwitz.

Yes, a Sephardi Jew from Turkish Salonika, an Ottoman lawyer by the name of Emmanuel Carasso, along with other Balkan Zionists, initiated the formation of the Young Turks who deposed the Sulton Abdul Hamid II in July of 1908. From day one, there was a conspiracy to clear the Ottoman Empire of Christians and this cleansing came to a head with the genocide of Armenians from 1915 - 1922. The Armenians had been living in the Caucasus for three thousand years. Their homeland and identity were savagely destroyed.

Purging them through this Armenian Holocaust had cleared the way for an eventual takeover of Palestine after the Zionists had convinced Britain to allow this to happen (as if Britain had the RIGHT to take these lands from the Palestinians who had been living there for one thousand years!) The state of Israel was formed from these ashes in 1948 and the murdering of resisting Palestinians started then, and sadly continues to this day. Why is it so difficult to present history in a way that is most accurate?

Israel has always tried to weasel out of any nexus or association with this Armenian tragedy, but, as time goes on, their Zionist inculpability will prove harder and harder to hide. Feigned innocence is a quality that Israel has long adopted with much nefarious success, but slowly people with influence will emerge and call Israel's deceptions and evasions for what they are. The international pressure to bow to Israel is a self-imposed Western insult because this adulation does nothing but denigrate the whole concept of honesty and transparency. No one within the International community should be deemed as "chosen". Once again: Why is it so difficult to present history in a way that is most accurate?

Yes, in the Nazi concentration camps there was musical diversions for the inmates. This is evidenced not only by the one hour and seventeen minute documentary which I presented at the end of my essay, but also here:

http://holocaustmusic.ort.org/places/overview-music-camps/

- David Lyga

What a dishonest answer. I asked you for one thing only and you know it. All you do is try to change the subject. Please provide evidence that Auschwitz had those facilities. Don't answer anything else but that.

Both musical concerts were given and plays were performed.

http://holocaustmusic.ort.org/places/overview-music-camps/

But, Brandon, the REAL unfairness is how Israel gets away with hiding its underlying, deadly association with the Armenian Holocaust. More than Jews count in this world. - David Lyga

Disturbing questions force Holocaust believers to experience much discomfort because re-examination of assimilated, normative thinking challenges our reassuring delusions. We MUST think of the Nazis as blood-thirsty demons with no capacity for humanity or honesty. There MUST be no Nazi with any redeeming human quality, whatsoever. It is IMPOSSIBLE to find a Jew during that period who measures up to the raw savagery of the Nazi.

Perhaps this is why a Jewish 'Ally' by the name of Solomon Morel escaped being extradited from Israel back to Poland for his horrific, sadistic war crimes that he ROUTINELY practiced when he commanded various prisons and concentration camps run by the Soviets in Poland. Accusations of war crimes and crimes against humanity do not, apparently, apply to Jews if their victims are not Jews. Again, if you are Jewish, your consummated, sadistic butchery must be downplayed, devalued, deflected for politically correct dissemination. If this Zionist refusal does not implicate Israel into the panoply of ignominious defenders of gross human rights violations, then please re-define just what such violations are derived from. This man was one of the most vile creatures ever created. But ... since he was Jewish, he was 'victim'.

In all cases, this is how victors wish history to unfold, with vilification of their opponent and commiseration of their compatriots. Objectivity is allowed to play no part here. We want our collective comfort level to remain unchallenged. We do not want a David Lyga questioner to sully that deception. We wish for people like David Lyga to be castigated, removed from the venue of credibility and banished from the wholesome perception of legitimacy. Or, at least, highly ridiculed so that his output will achieve absolutely no credibility. That is the ONLY weak way that we deal with the threat of having our perceptions dethroned.

This is why queries like mine cause most either to deflect or defer comment, or, with a combination of defiance and fear, desperately try to castigate the inquisitor. Am I reducing the value and dignity of the Jewish ethnicity with these pressing questions? Do you really WISH to reflect upon the comments which I have already made? Or, is there lingering disquiet, maybe embarrassment, with the level of nerve I have dared to impart?

How one approaches unsettling questions speaks loudly about one's character. I will again ask four questions which were already formulated within my essay. If you have the courage to think about them, do so. If you do not have such capability, think about that mental omission that you tenaciously cling to.

1) Why did Hitler's army contain 150,000 Jewish soldiers, with hundreds of those Jews in high leadership positions?

2) A branch of the Red Cross was embedded in each of those camps. Why did NONE of those branches "notice" that six million humans were being put to death and reported, instead, that, among ALL CAMPS, there were 271,000 deaths and that those deaths were NOT due to murder?

3) Why, in 1948, did JEWISH ORGANIZATIONS report to the World Almanac and the United Nations that world Jewry HAD INCREASED from 1938 to 1948?

4) When the Soviets liberation of Auschwitz was immanent, the Nazis gave the inmates a choice: either wait for the Soviets or come with the Nazis back to Germany. Why did the Jews chose to go with the Nazis? - David Lyga

The article doesn't mention Auschwitz and certainly doesn't talk about swimming pools or the other facilities you mentioned at Auschwitz

Here's the real truth. Your claim of these fine facilities for inmates at Nazi concentration camps was wrong and you're not man enough to admit it. Now, go ahead and change the subject, which seems to be your main debating tool.

Well, I guess, Brandon, you have just discovered that David Lyga is, and has been from the onset, all about lies, intrigue, and hating Jews; and more so than anyone anti-Semitic is capable.

Thus, said, now go and celebrate. You deserve such for uncovering my deep secrets with your fulsome efforts, my man.

Your lofty writings have done more for humanity than any human rights activist is capable of doing. Now, go and celebrate your Pyrrhic victory.

What amazes me about people like yourself is that you demand NO answers from the Holocaust believers who are not able to support and uphold logic. You give them a pass on that because to you and most believers, it is passion and politics which are more important than wisdom and logic. - David Lyga

No, I didn't say any of that. I said that you made a claim that's false and aren't man enough to admit it. You claimed:

If this killing was so important to the Nazis, they why did all camps have (FOR THE INMATES):

1) brothels
2) medical clinics
3) provisions for musical orchestras for entertainment
4) provisions for staging plays for entertainment
4) libraries
5) swimming pools
6) adequate, warm clothing for winter months

Provide me with one, single, solitary particle of evidence that Auschwitz had these facilities as you claim.

ABLE2KNOW had banned me for one week. I will return the favor by permanently banning David Lyga.

But, before I go I wish to present to you a link bringing forth the opinions of some revisionist Jews, past and present, who have disputed the Holocaust narrative and have stated so publicly. I do this because it has become so difficult within this structured Holocaust mindset for people to believe that one can raise serious questions ... and still not hate Jews.

Edit [Moderator]: Link removed

One of these is Jewish journalist David Cole. (He had temporarily changed his surname to 'Stein' after having received death threats from the Jewish Defense League.) His videoed trip to Auschwitz is presented on that website.

Cole presents discussion and photographs of physical amenities for the inmates at Auschwitz, such as a theater, a venue for musical performances, competitive swimming pool, medical clinic, library, and other things that the official tour guides do not wish the visitors to see; tourists must be very demanding and forward in order to be told of, and see, these physical attributes. Especially telling is the video's time stamp between 6:30 and 9:00 for the theater, etc, as well as starting at 33:30, where Cole shows the soccer field that the Nazis had built for the inmates' exercise and and enjoyment.

Jewish French Professor Roger Dommergue, who lived throughout WWII, spoke eloquently about Hitlers' positive commitment towards making Germany a better place to live in. He castigates the Holocaust industry and others who keep promoting what he considered a Zionist myth. Understandably, David Lyga does not know the full answer here, but Dommergue seems to remember an entirely different world after WWII whereby the "Holocaust imperative" was not so stuffed down into one's throat, as it is today. It is almost as if evidence is slowly mounting that will begin to prove that these mandatory assertions are really far fetched and foisted upon a sheep-like public; a public which is terrified of even daring to look a bit more closely into this narrative's factual merit. You see, even when Jews do the questioning, the imperative to believe, not question, becomes just as strong and just as accusatory towards those questioners.

Benjamin H Freedman, a top inner-circle Zionist from the early and mid part of the 20th Century, relinquished both Zionism and his Jewish religion because he was so fed up with its underlying message of intrigue, hate, and deception. His eloquent 1961 speech, presented here, speaks of his disdain for the Holocaust Industry and he warns about Zionism in a way that is both direct and existential. He clearly blames Zionism for much of the reasons for both WWI and WWII.

Now, David Lyga has departed Able2know, permanently. because he does not need to receive any more 'fines' from this website which relate 'facts' about his behavior concerning 'abuse of rules'. I am above returning such pettiness. Maybe this attack was the underlying intent of Able2know, I honestly do not know. Maybe they were pressured into doing this, but, nevertheless, it was convenient for them to implement, even if so. After all, many want people like myself to be shut up. Regardless, you will not have to put up with me any longer.

If anyone wishes to contact me, my yahoo email account is:

david33x

Think what you wish about this forced topic, but one thing is for certain: There is no perceived 'acceptable' way to discuss or debate its intended message which presents Jews, Zionists, as everlasting victims (and everlasting recipients of financial and political largess). As time proceeds, the challenges to this potentially false narrative will become more vibrant, and accusations about anti-Semitism will become less and less 'salable' to the hoi polloi. Why? Because promotion of lies will not supplant, or ultimately take precedence over, genuine historical fact. The Internet age and the breakdown of the Soviet Union both point towards more transparency for the oncoming years and decades.

Zionism is a powerful political force, but, since it is exclusionary, it cannot succeed in dictating legitimate thought for those who fail to adapt to its religious fervor. Those who cannot distill fact from this narrative's endless re-iteration and continually forced rhetoric are deemed to be willful anti-Semites. That bold and intrusive assertion, alone, speaks volumes. There are too many out there who are not sheep. There are too many out there who do not take their marching orders from this Zionist cabal.

Whether you consider me to be a person who has presented honest questions or whether you consider me to be an irreconcilable knave and miscreant, I do, nevertheless, wish each of you well. Your ongoing health, and perhaps a nascent development of an honest ability to reflect upon what I have tried to impart here, are sane, sanguine and salubrious wishes which I offer to all, without exception. Life is too short to posit otherwise.

Thank you to both my readers (and also to this website) for tolerating something that has, unfortunately, become a needlessly verboten topic within a world which, forevermore, demands sane answers. - David Lyga

This was too long for me to read...so I didn't. I perused it for a bit, but my interest was not aroused, so I abandoned the effort.

My "agnosticism" about gods is expressed thusly:

I do not know if any GOD (or gods) exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect that gods cannot exist…that the existence of a GOD or gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that at least one GOD must exist...that the existence of at least one GOD is needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction on whether any gods exist or not...

...so I don't.


(When I use the word "GOD or gods" here, I mean "The entity (or entities) responsible for the creation of what we humans call 'the physical universe'...IF SUCH AN ENTITY OR ENTITIES ACTUALLY EXIST.)

David, on the question of the Holocaust, I have more than enough unambiguous (and inferential) evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess: Which is that the Holocaust did occur...and I personally consider it to be one of the most disgusting undertakings ever devised by human minds.

I doubt I'll have much more to say on this, but since the thread was called to my attention, I thought it worth posting.

Don't worry David, take comfort in the knowledge that Brandon knew better than to address my post. You know it, I know it, and Brandon knows it.

One of the most famous eye witnesses to the gas chamber is Rudolf Vrba, who in 1985 was an assistant professor at the Canadian University of British Columbia. Vrba's testimony has formed the basis of most, if not all, descriptions of the gas chambers of Auschwitz, as he was interned at that camp during the war.

However, in 1985, during a trial of a holocaust revisionist in Toronto, Vrba testified that his book, "I Cannot Forgive", which contained all his eyewitness accounts was "an artistic picture" and that he himself had in fact never witnessed any gassings. ("Book 'An Artistic Picture' : Survivor never saw actual gassing deaths", Toronto Star, January 24, 1985)

Pushed to the point, Vrba admitted that he never witnessed anybody being gassed to death and his book about Auschwitz-Birkenau is only "an artistic picture...not a document for a court." Vrba told the trial that his written and pictorial descriptions of the Auschwitz crematoria and gas chambers are based on "what I heard it might look like." He said that his 1944 drawings of the "Auschwitz camp layout were inexact."

Honestly, really honestly, I doubt that the Holocaust ever happened. I mean, the top worldwide Jewish organization, the American Jewish Committee, told the newly formed UN THREE YEARS AFTER THE END OF WWII, in 1948, that there were more Jews in the world NOW (over 15 million) than there were in 1938!!! In addition, Winston Churchill wrote volume after volume about WWII, his writings lasting into the mid 1950s, and he never even mentioned any 'Holocaust'. Ditto Charles deGaulle, Joseph Stalin, and Dwight Eisenhower: NO MENTION OF ANY MASS MURDER OF JEWS. Was an intentional genocide of 6 million of one ethnicity so minor, so unimportant, so trivial????? Supposedly, 40% of world Jewry was wiped out during WWII and there is NO MENTION of this from these four important, very important, men. Are they all anti-Semnitic??? Is the American Jewish Committee anti-Semitic for ignoring that 40% of world Jewry was eliminated??? See the 1948 World Almanac for verification of these Jewish population figures. I am not blind to this chicanery, even though I would be imprisoned in Europe if I were there right now.

Hitler's early bodyguard and driver was Emil Maurice, as Jewish as it gets; he remained in the SS until the end of the War, despite Himmler's protests. WHY? Maurice was one of Hitler's best friends, that's why. And ... 150,000 of Hitler's troops, many in high SS leadership positions, were Jews. Finally, the Israeli Times (7 September 2018) has documented how Zionists helped Turkey commit the genocide of the Armenians. (Little wonder why Israel to this day does not want to talk about this genocide.)

So, how much sympathy am I supposed to have for "the Jews"????? - David Lyga

so what happened?

You know, Philbis, sometimes one simply cannot avoid adding to the logic even if doing so counters what he had previously said. - David Lyga

fair enough...