Proof that Money cannot buy happiness.

thanks for clarifying that. comparing risk to walking across the street is a bit like apples and oranges though. people usually don't cross the street as a hobby, but because they need to.

but while you're putting in 2 cents, do you agree with another shall we say supporter of experimental planes that i lack common sense and made an absurd accusation and that i live confined by fear? or was that a little uncalled for?

" i'd hardly categorize everyone who voted for Bush as lacking in common sense"

really. didn't seem like that to me...... I present Exhibit A:

"incidentally, i think "common sense" is a bit of a misnomer. for example, take how many people voted for the incumbent in the last presidential election. for the record, i didn't. "

nice job trying to slither out of your vitriolic rhetoric though.

"First off Bubba - I stated the conservative Christian viewpoint of suicide. Many people feel differently even within the Christian faith. I was simply explaining why it is not a solution to finding happiness even if by dying you reach salvation and eternal peace.

Suicide is, in effect, self-murder. The unfortunate thing about it is that the one who commits it cannot repent of it. The damage is permanently done. We can see in the Bible that murderers have been redeemed (Moses, David, etc.), but they had opportunities to confess their sins and repent. With suicide, the person does not. Conservative Christians and Catholics believe that as a result this person would not be saved.

However, there are other Christian opinions that would state that this does not mean the person is lost. Jesus bore all that person's sins, including suicide. If Jesus bore that person's sins on the cross over 2000 years ago, and if suicide was not covered, then the Christian was never saved in the first place and the one sin of suicide is able to undo the entire work of the cross of Christ. This cannot be. Jesus either saves completely or he does not.

In either situation, as a Christian you are supposed to follow Jesus' teachings whether it is difficult or not. Even confessing is not the more important aspect; it is the repenting of the sin. For a Christians suicide is not an option. Christians believe they do not have the right to take their own lives. That belongs to God.

Secondly, do you understand what you just said? Confessing and asking for forgiveness can be done without speaking. When you pray to God, you do not necessarily talk out loud. You don't even have to form words, simple thoughts. My two year old prays.

Thirdly, not sure if you were referring to me as being a Bush supporter, but I did not vote for him and whether one votes for a particular candidate or not has nothing to do with common sense.

Finally, realizing you are very new here, I will give you the benefit of the doubt. If you ever read anything I have written you would be well aware that I am extremely open minded (something you should look into) - I am not a conservative Christian, am considered a liberal Christian so instead of making rash judgments you need to be a little more open minded. If you didn't know, my a2k name is Linkat and I would prefer if you give me the respect I deserve and refer to me as such."
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what on earth are you rambling about? I was merely pointing out the flaw in your assertion that people who commit suicide go to hell because they can't repent.

When did I ever say you were anyone other than Linkat or bring up your political orientation? Lay off the grass man.

"it is the repenting of the sin. For a Christians suicide is not an option. Christians believe they do not have the right to take their own lives. That belongs to God.
Secondly, do you understand what you just said? Confessing and asking for forgiveness can be done without speaking. When you pray to God, you do not necessarily talk out loud. You don't even have to form words, simple thoughts. My two year old prays."

again....double-you-tee-eff? You are missing the point. How can you repent (express that you are sorry to God for your sins) if you don't have the language capacity to do so?
And just because your two year old sits next to his(her?) bed with his eyes close and hands cupped does not mean he is praying
It is IMPOSSIBLE to pray without forming words in your head. The whole concept of prayer is rooted in passing a message/question to God. Is your two year old sending impluses from his soul in the form of morse code to God?

Again my point stands that if you feel people who commit suicide can't be "saved" because they can't "repent" then either: your logic is horribly flawed or you must accept the fact that such a set of circumstances would cause a whole lot of people throughout history to "suffer eternal damnation".

TTF wrote,"I think beliefs have nothing to do with it."

In the materialist theory of mind a belief is an actual physical state based on the idea that there are no non-physical states.

On that argument beliefs have everything to do with it.In fact,to stretch the point,there might be nothing else but beliefs having anything to do with anything.

What do you think?

"but while you're putting in 2 cents, do you agree with another shall we say supporter of experimental planes that i lack common sense and made an absurd accusation and that i live confined by fear? or was that a little uncalled for"

Grow up and get over it. You're the one trashing dead people and questioning their judgment for being adventurous only days after they have passed. I was merely illustrating how you appear when you call anyone who takes a risk as "lacking common sense". I think it is the Walton family that should be offended by your remarks, not you by mine. :wink:

no, when i mentioned "how many" it was the total number i questioned. if voting for bush was nonsensical of itself, i should have instead said something like, i mean how could anybody vote for bush.

since you like quotes, explain to me how you arrived at the label "partisan hack". according to the CNN exit poll for the 2004 election, 11% of Democratic voters chose Bush, while 6% of GOP voters chose Kerry. http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

what i said exactly was, this is more like proof that wealth isn't always accompanied by common sense. i did not say it was lack of common sense. ok, supposing the Walton's are offended, that gives you the right to be offensive in their behalf? and trashing dead people--your phrase, not mine--who could care less, and perhaps their relatives, who as far as i know haven't posted to able2know.com to indicate their displeasure, justifies trashing living people?

"When did I ever say you were anyone other than Linkat" - answer: "ROFFLEcakes"

"nice job trying to slither out of your vitriolic rhetoric though"

"I was merely pointing out the flaw in your assertion that people who commit suicide go to hell because they can't repent."

I was merely clarifying my answer. Also, the point was not whether people go to hell or not, the point is that suicide is not a proper option for Christians as thinkfactory made reference to.

"…bring up your political orientation…"
Your reference immediately after quoting me then went on to speak about Bush and common sense. As your writing is not clear, I was unsure if you were referring to me or some one else so that is why I stated…."…not sure if you were referring to me as being a Bush supporter…"

"How can you repent (express that you are sorry to God for your sins)" - your quote …" How do people without a language and in turn, the ability to "confess and ask forgiveness".." and you were referring to 1st grade - Some one without a language can again repent be sorry. My two year understands the meaning of being sorry. Also, there is the belief that young children beyond the age of understanding are saved period.

Not that this has anything to do with the subject, but since you are bringing up the argument about…"Is your two year old sending impluses (sic) from his soul in the form of morse code to God?" Actually she even says the words out loud.


"Again my point stands that if you feel people who commit suicide can't be "saved" because they can't "repent" then either: your logic is horribly flawed or you must accept the fact that such a set of circumstances would cause a whole lot of people throughout history to "suffer eternal damnation"."

I didn't say this obviously you did not thoroughly read what I wrote. As I stated various viewpoints within the Christian faith. I did state that conservative Christian and Catholics do believe this. I did not even state where I stood on the sub

i'm the one accused of spewing vitriolic rhetoric, Linkat. and i don't think ROFFLEcakes is a name; it seems to be a trendy expression i'm not "grown up" enough to know.

Ahhh, but in your first reply, flying his aircraft may not been as simple as comparing apples to oranges at all. It could be that people cross the street simply because they want to, not because they need to.

And no, I would not say that you live your life confined by fear. That would be presumptuous seeing as I don't know you at all. One person's every day existence is another person's fear. I used to keep rattlesnakes in my bedroom and one night one escaped and bit two of my cats. Now this is a risk most people would not want to take. A LOT of people would not keep hots to begin with. It would be risky and fearful to them. I knew the risk and yet I still kept the rattlesnakes after the cats were treated and recovered. It's our own comfort level within any given situation that drives us to be fearful of that situation or not. In your opinion, I can only guess that you feel flying an experimental aircraft is risky and to you, fearful. Based on that one scenario I would imagine a lot of people share your view, but that does not mean your whole life is lived in fear.

You gots 3 cents that time.

caramba! Lady J, you're not Steve Irwin's mom, are you? btw, i do something a lot riskier than cross the street everyday--driving on one of the most congested freeways in a state infamous for traffic congestion. so perhaps i can improve my overall survival rate by being safety-minded during recreation.

Splen -

Based on what was being discussed at the time - it still has little to bear. Meaning - belief in a higher power has little to do (material or no) with the facts of there actually being a God.

I was saying that you must be alive to be happy - an argument was forwarded that if you believed in life after death you could be happy after death.

Belief - has nothing to do with it. There would actually have to be life after death - and then we could forward and argument that you can happy there.

TF

Have I been thread-jacked?



TF

Thank you for the clarification yitwail - as I am older, I am not up on all the computer slang. I tend to write full words rather than slang so as to confuse.

My apologies for misinterpreting Bubba.

Thinkfactory if you take the stance that you must be alive to be happy, then the opposite must be true, you must be alive to be unhappy - you are neither. You are simply assuming there is no form of afterlife. Do you know for sure? If not, then what you state is just a belief - and as you stated…"this is just a belief and there has nothing to do with it". So in your theory there is no way to know whether one is happy or not after death. If you are not just assuming, please provide us with the facts of what happens when one is dead.

Link:

The opposite must be true? Why? What sort of law of nature are you referring to that asserts that an opposite must be true when its converse is?

Is unhappiness the opposite of happiness? Wouldn't a-happiness be the opposite of happiness? Hate isn't the opposite of love - apathy is. I do not see why this would be any different for happiness.

I have assumed nothing about afterlife. I think from your tone you have assumed much about me you have no clule about.

I believe in an afterlife - but to simply state that the belief in an afterlife makes it so - and that you can be happy there is a leap to say the least.

Your assertions of an afterlife in this thread are as follows: You have made a statement that there is an afterlife AND that that life (afterlife) is somehow different from this life (in that you will be more happy there) AND that this is somehow simply dependent on your beliefs in the matter AND seem to want me to prove your assertions correct by arguing what you and I cannot possible 'know' in any postive sense.

My assertions are as follows: That money (being control or power) cannot buy life AND life is, atleast a necessary condition to happiness.

If you wish to prove more here go ahead - but I think your challenge for me to prove you wrong is as empty as my challenge to prove you right.

TTF

Well it is simple thinkfactory, if I am making the correct assumptions. I believe what you are stating is the reason that you cannot be happy when you die is - you basically do not exist. The reason for this assumption is you state "…There would actually have to be life after death.." If that is true that you do not exist, then you are neither happy or unhappy. That is what I was trying to state. Whether the true opposite of happy is unhappy is moot.

Also if you do believe in an afterlife - how can you assume you would be happy or unhappy there. Unless you have experienced it, how could you know? So even if my assumption is incorrect, then there is no way to know if you would be happy or unhappy or something in between.

I did make certain assertions regarding an afterlife, but what I also stated was it didn't matter whether there was an afterlife or not, you don't know. In either situation, you would not know whether you would be unhappy, when you experience it.

It would make much more sense to say something like you can't take it with you. As we have seen even with the Egyptians who tried to do such, that these items were still entombed with their bodies.

I am not trying to prove some one wrong or right - what I am stating is that you cannot know either way so money buying happiness has nothing to do with death as it is an unknown at least factually.

I think you are consistently attaching a rider here.

Meaning, I only made a claim about life - you brought in the after life. Both of us, oddly enough ( ) are talking about life.

I made no assumptions about an afterlife - only made assertions about life.



However, let me talk about both.

Money cannot buy you life. You need to be alive to be happy.

Money cannot buy you afterlife (or atleast I have yet to see a religion who truly and consistently thinks this).

Either way you need life to be happy. Now how is money not being able to buy you these things off topic?

TF