FASSBINDER

I have seen Fox and his Friends, The Bitter Tears of Petra Von Kant and The Marriage of Maria Braun.

I think he's interesting, his life is more interesting still, and a good writer.
Of this films, I actually liked only The Marriage of Maria Braun, but not with enthusiasm.

So I guess I'm in a position similar to yours. I doubt whether he's the size of his filmmaking fame.

Fbaezer--I gather you think Fassbinder is overrated. I wonder if you would mind spelling out in more detail why you think so, for insttance, what you did not like about THE MARRIAGE OF MARIA BRAUN, a film I cherish. I don't intend to argue with you; I am genuinely curious to hear your reasoning.

As I said, I actually liked that film. Only I found it a little too detached. Perhaps, as I said in another thread, I like to be moved. This detachment seems to be Fassbinder's signature.

For example, as I recall "Fox and his Friends" the story was superstrong, but it didn't move me.

Funny you mention FOX AND HIS FRIENDS, I just saw it for the first time (in a theater, thank God!) last night. You may be right that detachment is Fassbinder's signature. He is a cool, intelligent observer rather than a passionate narrator like Bertolucci, who I would say is his complete opposite in every way, stylistically and emotionally. What is satisfying about Fassbinder is the richness of his observation, which comes from the writing--the way he creates fully inhabited little worlds, as in FOX, where there are several levels of society running parallel at the same time. MARIA BRAUN also has this degree of almost novelistic richness of detail.

Just sawBEWARE OF A HOLY WHORE, not bad, a satire on filmmaking, and THE MERCHANT OF FOUR SEASONS, very good. I continue to be impressed by fassbinder's unique talents.

Yeah, Larry, lots of levels to make you think.

And yes, I guess I prefer Bertolucci.

I like a few Bertolucci movies. But he has done so many crappy ones, especially in the past 15 years, that I have given up on him. THE CONFORMIST and to a lesser extent LAST TANGO are wonderful, but recently his talent seems to have abandoned him. I also liked SPIDER'S STRATAGEM and BEFORE THE REVOLUTION, but have hated everything he did since LAST EMPEROR. I walked out of LITTLE BUDDHA, it was so bad, and should have walked out of SHELTERING SKY.

Got to agree on "Little Buddha", not with "The Sheltering Sky".

"Last Tango in Paris", is IMO, his best. I also enjoyed "Novecento" a lot, even if I concede that it reeks a bit of didactic socialism. The history of Italy 1900-1975, according to the old PCI.

The Brando parts of LAST TANGO are amazing, the Maria Schneider by herself parts are embarassingly bad I think. But it is still a remarkable film and a milestone in film history. NOVECENTO I have very mixed feelings about--the first half is mostly superb, but the didacticism you mention spoils the rest. Bertolucci's version of Italian history is way too simplistic--Donald Sutherland is a grotesque villain as the fascist Attila. BTW, I have seen the "long" version of NOVECENTO, the one released in Italy, and it has exactly the same faults, just on a bigger scale. Also I think DeNiro was wrong for the part and didn't try very hard to overcome that. Do you really like SHELTERING SKY? I thought it was a mess, not at all as strong as the book. One underrated Bertolucci film is THE SPIDER'S STRATAGEM--don't miss it if you haven't seen it.

"Last Tango in Paris" is, in my opinion, Brando's best performance. The scene in front of the mother's corpse is amazing.

I saw both "Novecento" films in Italy. I'd give Atto I a 10, and Atto II an 8. Attila was waaaay too bad! Too sadistic. I'm sure Bertolucci wanted to show the core of fascism, it came out somewhat caricaturesque.
Agree on De Niro's performance. But Burt Lancaster was superb.

The original script had De Niro's uncle (the sophisticated photographer of nude boys) come as part of the partigiani when liberation from nazism arrived. But they were wise enough to edit that part.

If anything, Fassbinder is underrated by American critics. His "Berlin Alexanderplatz" is tough going for most being nearly sixteen hours -- I first saw it on the old "Z" channel in LA. A flawless masterpiece of filmmaking. It takes a discerning taste and having one's grey cells turned up full bloom to appreciate Fassbinder even though in analyzing his style and technique, it's really quite simple and without affectations.

Fbaezer--the corpse in LAST TANGO is Brando's WIFE, who has committed suicide before the film begins. Incredible that you missed this plot point since it is the motor for the entire film.

Lightwizard--can it be that you are giving me an indirect compliment on my superb taste since, thanks to this discussion I started, I am a declared Fassbinder lover? Do my eyes deceive me or are you actually saying something nice to me for a change?

Daah!
I recall well but wrote wrong.

Gotta see Dr. Freud!

Fbaezer, as my girlfriend would say, your Freudian slip is showing!

I you are searching for compliments, you'll find one.

I don't know which is sloppier, Lightwizard--your typing or your thinking. Today it seems to be your typing. Don't you know about the EDIT button?

re Fassbinder:

foreignfilms.com says Fassbinder to have created 44 projects
http://www.foreignfilms.com/bio.asp?person_id=1022

However, he actually did 45 films: from his ever first (short)film "This Night (1966)" unfortunately no copy exists anymore.

Walter, "Berlin Alexanderplatz" is so long that surely it counts as more than one measly movie?