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In Defense of the Feud thread

 
 
Thu 19 Sep, 2019 09:55 pm
The Feud thread was a great solution to a persistent problem. There are member who have long running feuds that spread from thread to thread. By putting these feuds on one single thread we solve two problems.

1) It avoids spamming up unrelated threads with personal issues.
2) It discourages bad behavior and personal attacks by putting them in one place.

In my opinion, the long running personal feuds are ruining Able2know. It makes it very difficult to have a real conversation on any topic because people have to wade through the same off-topic attacks on thread after unrelated thread.

Moderating the personal attacks doesn't seem to be realistic. There are rules about following people from thread to thread that don't seem to be enforced. If I can't respond to nasty off-topic personal attacks on a separate thread, then I will continue to respond to them on thread after thread.

I wish that moving off-topic attacks to another thread was allowed. I believe that it is a good solution to the problems that are plaguing Able2know right now.


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Type: Question • Score: 3 • Views: 919 • Replies: 43
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View best answer, chosen by maxdancona
maxdancona
 
  1  
Thu 19 Sep, 2019 10:42 pm
You are a funny woman, Neptune!
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  4  
Fri 20 Sep, 2019 05:09 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

In my opinion, the long running personal feuds are ruining Able2know.


Only you seem to find that. You're unhappy because you can't tell people what to do. Initially you attacked us all for not being polite enough, and then when that didn't work you tried to shut people down by unilaterally deciding what is off topic, and now you're trying to set up your own threads for your own vanity exercise, but nobody else is playing along.

So now we've got this. What next, a thread in defence of the thread in defence of the feud thread?

It's not just me, it's lots of people. Lots of people don't believe you, they question your motivations, they ask why you're starting a thread, what you really mean.

I don't get that with anyone else, I may not like their politics/religion or something else, but I don't question their honesty or motivation.

You spend all your time claiming to be moderate, liberal and then you attack anyone who speaks for those values while tacitly supporting those with far right highly illiberal views.

And you wonder why nobody believes you.
maxdancona
 
  -3  
Fri 20 Sep, 2019 05:17 am
@izzythepush,
The problem is that you throw personal attacks on anyone who disagrees with you... and then you bring these attacks to thread after interminable thread. Here is the latest example.

Izzy wrote:
It took two years for Max to finally accept that the Swastika flying Charlotteville marchers were neo Nazis, so don't expect reality to make an appearance any time soon.

KKK was a term used by Nazis, in German it meant, Children, Church and the Kitchen. That was the role of women, housework, child rearing and going to church, and nothing else.

That's something that clearly appeals to Max.


https://able2know.org/topic/531143-1

You wrote this in a thread about Bernie Sanders... a thread that had nothing to do with nazis.

Note to moderator: I would like guidance on what rules are being enforced. Some threads and posts are getting deleted. But this feud is running from thread to thread.

I would like to find a way to get this feud to stop. It is very difficult not to respond to posts where someone is accusing you of being a nazi.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Fri 20 Sep, 2019 06:01 am
@maxdancona,
Disingenuous as always. I was responding to Real Music's post, where they said that some of the "deplorables" actually were Nazis.

So it had everything to do with the Nazis and my post was appropriate. It did take you two years to finally admit those swastika brandishing thugs actually were Nazis.

And that's you in a nutshell, lie, spin, misrepresent, half truths, anything to avoid honestly dealing with the issues raised.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  4  
Fri 20 Sep, 2019 06:07 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I would like to find a way to get this feud to stop. It is very difficult not to respond to posts where someone is accusing you of being a nazi.


Really, and you think starting threads helps that.

I never called you a Nazi, I said you shared some of their views, in particular the way they viewed women.

You have a real problem with working women in general and powerful women in particular.

When I challenged you on another thread you could not name one woman poster you got on well with.

You say contentious stuff, then get upset when challenged. I would take the same approach to anyone who insisted that a mainstream political party should tailor make its policies for them and no one else.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Fri 20 Sep, 2019 06:42 am
@izzythepush,
The problem is off topic personal attacks that derail thread after thtead. I don't think I am the only person who is tired of them.

I have no problem taklng a punch or throwing one. The issue is that it os on thtrad after interminable thread. I don't mind rolling in the hay with Izzy or anyone else. I thought that having a separate thread for this was a good idea.

If people enjoy having every thread get derailed with the same personal attacks... Then maybe I am offbase.

It does seem to me that able2know would be better with fewer personal attacks and more threads that stay on topic. But that's just me.

Is there anyone else who is sick of every thread turning into name calling?
izzythepush
 
  3  
Fri 20 Sep, 2019 07:06 am
@maxdancona,
I agree with you to a point, but I disagree on what is off topic/on topic.

You make unilateral decisions on what you think is and is not on topic and you then expect people to abide by your diktat.

If you start a thread attacking "foolish liberals" then questioning your motivation is not off topic, even if you think it is.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  6  
Fri 20 Sep, 2019 07:15 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
I don't mind rolling in the hay with Izzy

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  3  
Fri 20 Sep, 2019 09:02 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
1) It avoids spamming up unrelated threads with personal issues.

It will do no such thing. It won't stop people expressing their bitterness, anger or disgruntlement at each other in the various other threads they meet. It will just add another layer to it by creating a place that literally solely exists to have people pursue and escalate their feuds.

maxdancona wrote:
the long running personal feuds ... makes it very difficult to have a real conversation on any topic because people have to wade through the same off-topic attacks on thread after unrelated thread.

True. And if two people go at it for 10 or 20 posts in a row, bunches of posts will be pulled as argument ad nauseam. But off-topic is also in the eye of the beholder, and you tend to conflate substance-free personal attacks with angrily worded attacks on your views.

When people call someone an asshole or a bastard, those posts tend to disappear. But when people argue that someone's stated views are betraying them to be a racist or a commie, a Trump lover or a cowardly liberal... well, it's pretty likely that the posts in question aren't worth reading much, but that goes for a lot of content, and meanwhile the mods still aren't here to stifle political debate, and that includes someone arguing that a fellow poster's ideology is X because they said Y. Even when the argument is silly.

maxdancona wrote:
If I can't respond to nasty off-topic personal attacks on a separate thread, then I will continue to respond to them on thread after thread.

And you will keep being as much to blame as the other party/parties for cluttering threads with useless and unpleasant content.
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Fri 20 Sep, 2019 09:22 am
@nimh,
1) The feud thread was a demonstrable success. It broke the cycle by moving off-topic nastiness from topic threads. When the feud thread was I use, no threads were derailed for more than 3 posts.

2) The problem is personal attacks that jump from thread to thread. If this behavior srops, able2know will work better.

3) In my experience moderation is not working. Direct personal attacks and following users from thread to thread... both things are disruptive and against the rules are allowed to stand.

I accept the responsibility for expressing unpopular opinions. I dont accept any responsibility for the nasty personal attacks.

There is a big difference between the two.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Fri 20 Sep, 2019 11:23 am
It was a success. By success I mean that while it was in use there wero no threads derailed.

A thread gets derailed when I express an opinion that upsets Izzy. He responds accusing me of one of his list of go to insults; racist, homophobe, liar, right wing, rape apologist or neo-nazi symathizer.

This results in 3 or 4 or 5 pages of nasty insults focusws on whether or not I am in fact a neo-nazi sympathizer. This is by definition off topic in any thread that isnt about which able2know members are neo-nazi sympathizers.

This has happened on threads about organic food, whether someone should ask for a second date and Bernie Sanders.

The feud thread shrank pages and pages of nasty off topic insults into a tidy line moving our endless fight to another thread.

If the goal is to prevent our little feud from derailling threads, it is an unquestionable success.

The feud thread went away, and the Bernie thread derailed in a discussion about neo-nazis.

Maybe people prefer that we spam thread after thread with the same insults. I am getting tired of it.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Fri 20 Sep, 2019 11:32 am
@maxdancona,
When you're those things I point them out.

Stop playing the victim. Calling you a liar is not an insult it's a statement of fact. You lie all the time, and you've admitted it.

You told someone my wife walked out on me when you know I'm widowed and threatened to tell more hurtful lies if I didn't give in to your demands.

You're a liar, it's just how you are, the only thing that's changed is you used to have the guts to admit it.
farmerman
 
  2  
Fri 20 Sep, 2019 11:35 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:

You told someone my wife walked out on me when you know I'm widowed
That is a low blow. I think eve all known about your widowerhood
farmerman
 
  3  
Fri 20 Sep, 2019 11:37 am
@maxdancona,
I got thi message for both of you from lessons Ive learnt. IT TAKES YOU BOTH TO KEEP IT GOING!!

Notic how JTT doesnt bother those who dont play her game?
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Fri 20 Sep, 2019 11:40 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

I got thi message for both of you from lessons Ive learnt. IT TAKES YOU BOTH TO KEEP IT GOING!!

Notic how JTT doesnt bother those who dont play her game?


Thats my point exactly. It does take both Izzy and I to keep ot going.

Which is why I am suggesting a way to stop it.

You seem to want to encourage it for some reason .
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Fri 20 Sep, 2019 11:46 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Quote:

You told someone my wife walked out on me when you know I'm widowed
That is a low blow. I think eve all known about your widowerhood


This happened when Izzy went aftwr my daughter. I asked him to stop several times... he responded by taking it to multiple unrelated threads. The report button had no results.

So I punched back hard. And it worked, Izzy whined a bit but he hasnt artacked my family since. I think this was years ago.

Izzy is not a victim. If he is going to fight dirty, he cant then go whining about his feelings being hurt.

Farmerman... You seem to be taking sides. I would prefer this feud stop.

izzythepush
 
  0  
Fri 20 Sep, 2019 11:53 am
@maxdancona,
I never went after your daughter.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Fri 20 Sep, 2019 12:01 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

I never went after your daughter.


This was years ago, and I don't feel proud. But yes, what I said about you wife was a carefully calibrated punch designed to be proportionate. I felt you crossed a line, and that was my response.

After that we both backed down. I haven't felt that angry with you since.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Fri 20 Sep, 2019 12:08 pm
I am proposing a way out of this endless nasty feud.

1) I don't punch first. I will express and defend my opinion on topic. I wont drag in attacks from other threads.

2) I propose the ability to take the personal nastiness to another thread where I am happy to slug it out with Izzy or anyone else to their heart's content. This would keep threads from being derailed.

3) If Izzy or anyone else is going to throw off topic punches... I feel the need (or at least the urge) to throw them back.

I am trying to find a way for us to stop derailing threads.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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