What are we able to know? The revelation of our purpose?

Well, Cyracuz, it depends on whether or not one has a dream. That's a 'mark' in case you did not realize it. <smile>

all right, back with some serious thoughts, Cyracuz.

As fate would have it, I will talk about The American Dream. In the old immigration period:

Old Immigrants (1620 - 1840) - Immigrants arriving during this time period were primarily from Western Europe.

They shared backgrounds:

Religion: Protestant

Nations: England, Germany, Netherlands

Appearance: Fair skin, hair and eyes.

They fared better than those who came to claim the dream during the new immigration period, but all came in search of "A New World Colossus." Some recognized it, but others did not. So perhaps it takes the primal drive to even begin the dream.

I think the primal drive is the dream. The european "invation" of america was a dream many shared, but to colonize america was not the dream itself. That was the realization of the dream. The dream was a better existence, and when america was discovered, many looked to the west as a possible realization of their dreams.
As you say, some found it, others did not. But that is not important. The important thing was that they all went in pursuit of their own dreams.

By the way, have you read a book called "the alchymist"? I don't remember the authors name. Paulo something. It was this book that got me to thinking about this.

Cyracuz, I have not read the book of which you speak, but it must have been inspiring to prompt you to create this study in philosophy. Might I add this, because I see a parallel:

The Gift Outright

The land was ours before we were the land's.
She was our land more than a hundred years
Before we were her people. She was ours
In Massachusetts, in Virginia,
But we were England's, still colonials,
Possessing what we still were unpossessed by,
Possessed by what we now no more possessed.
Something we were withholding made us weak
Until we found out that it was ourselves
We were withholding from our land of living,
And forthwith found salvation in surrender.
Such as we were we gave ourselves outright
(The deed of gift was many deeds of war)
To the land vaguely realizing westward,
But still unstoried, artless, unenhanced,
Such as she was, such as she would become.

-- Robert Frost

To paraphrase, Norway: The dream was ours before we were the dream's.

I think we owe it to evolution itself to continue dreaming and ensuring we fulfill our dreams.

Man has advanced at such an unprecedented rate this last 100 years. Man is also capable of some very barbaric deeds to ensure his dreams are fulfilled. At times this can be a very beneficial part of our progress, at others it can be further beneficial. From looking across to the other side of a swollen river, and now into space, man has and alway's will have an inbuilt desire for the knowledge he will gain from crossing these barriers.
I rather think you have hit the nail on the head with the DNA reference Cyracuz! Man owes it to man to make advancements in all of his undertakings. Unfortunately man has a habit of creating obstacles of his own desire, at times these creations can be fruitful, alas they have a habit of backfiring though. Considering the age of a sensible thinking upright walking homosapien, the advancement in such a small amount of time in relationship to the age of the planet is somewhat remarkable, especially as previously referred to, the last 100 years.

Hi there Luscious Lips Letty x :wink:

We must never cease from exploration. And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we began and to know the place for the first time.

-- Thomas Stearns Eliot

Hi, back Mathos, where you been you sexy thing?

Good observation as well.

I have been about Luscious Lips Letty, it's nice to talk to you. Time has been rather limited, had a busy work week, which is good. Then I appear to have been jousting, as per usual, EM, Lola, Spendius, usual crew. They sure get wound up and uppity though. Tis good to laugh though, good for the heart and soul, and it reduces wrinkles of the wrong sort. I'd sooner have laughy wrinkles than frowny wrinkles. Catch you over the weekend no doubt. x

Mathos:-

You should 'a bin a preacher.

Letty, thanks for that. That's one frost we don't have in the cold north. It might just be wordplay, but I'd say that we are the dream, and the dream is us.

Mathos, the trouble with our dreams is that they do not always execute as well as we imagined they would. Like you say, they can easily backfire, but I'm beginning to suspect that that was part of the plan all along. It was never meant to be easy.

When it comes to the evolution of man in the last hundred years, I am not sure I agree that it is so much greater than in other ages. Was the industrial revolution a step forward of back? Sideways maybe? That's what I think. I think that most of the things we occupy ourselves with today are sidestepping. Not that it is not beneficial in some sense. It is the evolutional footstep, circling the barrier in search of a stairway up.

My point is just that there is no way it can last, so there will be radical changes sooner or later.

Oh no Spendius, Old Bean, I'm a lover! Ask any of the ladies.

Everything about our existence is difficult Cyracuz, we are on a permanent tight rope. We are reasonably clever though, and advancement is taken with more care and consideration in most aspects.

For thousands of years we were rather stagnant. The industrial revolution and the development of the steam engine, in my book was a giant leap for mankind. The petrol engine and it's obvious knock on effects, (admittedly accelerated by two world wars especially) was unique in propelling man from horseback and train, to travel, communications, and the obvious IT advancement the world has ever seen. Steps are obviously taken to safeguard their maintenance and well being, but I see where you are coming from. It may be necessary to impose radical changes in the future, which may have disastrous effects on our way of life. However, the conglomerates having the onus of ensuring our further better evolvement will and should have most of our concerns well in hand. I hope they do.

Mathos, sorry about the long response time. My web access is sporadic.

I am not so sure I share the view that the industrial revolution was a leap forward. Granted, it was a landslide of advancement, but as all landslides, the actual tumbling or the rocks down the slope is just a result of erosion perhaps over hundreds of years.

The attaining of the knowledge of the wheel, the taming of fire, these are early stages of our technology. Humans have always been industrious.

So in short, I agree with everything you say, just not how you say it.

And that, by the way, holds true for most of the discussions, if not all, I've ever engaged in.

Always, is a strong statement to make Cyracuz. I rather think we went with the flow whilst everything ran smoothly. Evolution rather explains, those who had the warmth, regular food and simplicity in being here made less progress than those who evolved in ice age conditions for instance. Necessity always will be the mother of invention.

We are still an extremely barbaric race of beings as well. One might consider we should have learned by now, but we seem to carry on doing it. We like the movies they make about it all afterwards too.

"Necessity will always be the mother of invention". Absolutely. And as you say, the pampered grow soft, and when push comes to shove the one who has suffered a storm will know how to make shelter. We are industrious or we are dead. It is equally true of the entire species and the individual.

You will find no disagreement here that we are brutes. We have the facilities and abilities of higher learning and understanding, we have the potential to shed our fear and ignorance and become humans, but instead we nurture it, thus becoming capable of the worst abominations.
And we like the movies made about it afterwards too. That part caused me to laugh out loud.

Could be we are all lunatic, psycho convicts from some galaxy in a ninth dimension. serving a sentence here.

Strange, Mathos, my father thought that earth was the real hell and that in some other milkyway lay heaven. Perhaps that is why we here are eternally looking at the stars.

Hi Luscious Lips Letty,

Why do you always catch me at bed time?

He may be correct, the truth of everything regarding our being is that we don't really know anything at all for sure.

The acceptance of ignorance is quite fulfilling, I find. My there are thoughts I have had which would curl up your toes LLL, but they are good fun. xx