You = continuity of experience

If someone replicates a house, does that mean the same property is over there?

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The house would not be the original house, but it would have the same property as the original.

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Re: You = continuity of experience
Ray

You are all the experiences you have in your life. Mental and sensorial experiences. That is you.

About the example you gave: if you are destroyed, in that moment your being is complete. The "I" you were has no more experiences, you have achieved the definition of yourself according to all experiences you had, beginning with your birth and completed with your death.
If they replicate your body, they create a being that has the memory of the experience of the being that was destroyed. The new being has not experienced that, since he begins know, and your experience is made in time.

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Ray, this is a tricky, tricky question.

You may remember a discussion between Watchmaker's Guidedog and I on
consciousness over time and space in the 'should ethics apply to non-human animals' debate.

Any thoughts on this? Everyone gave up on it before...

val wrote:

You are all the experiences you have in your life. Mental and sensorial experiences. That is you.

About the example you gave: if you are destroyed, in that moment your being is complete. The "I" you were has no more experiences, you have achieved the definition of yourself according to all experiences you had, beginning with your birth and completed with your death.
If they replicate your body, they create a being that has the memory of the experience of the being that was destroyed. The new being has not experienced that, since he begins know, and your experience is made in time.

Val, I'm not saying you are wrong, but how can you be so confident about this? You talk as if you are teaching Ray a point of fact, not tentatively putting forward a suggestion, which seems inappropriate in this kind of discussion.

What do you mean by "achieved the definition of yourself"? How do you achieve a definition? And since the physical substance that makes us up changes throughout our lives, would you say that the 'you' when you are old has not experienced being 'you' when you were young?

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Nothing to add except that I'm with val on this one.

I particularly like this sentence:

Quote:

if you are destroyed, in that moment your being is complete.

The clone would be a continuation of you, but also a person entirely on it's own with it's own identity aside from you.

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Cyracuz wrote:

I particularly like this sentence:

Quote:
if you are destroyed, in that moment your being is complete.

I don't understand this sentence. Could you elaborate, val? What do you mean by 'being'? What do you mean by 'complete'? Why is the being incomplete before death? I think ideas could relate to some metaphysical fumblings of my own, but I'm not sure.

Cyracuz wrote:

The clone would be a continuation of you, but also a person entirely on it's own with it's own identity aside from you.

Is the same true of 'old you' and 'young you', that one is a continuation of the other, but they have distinct identities?

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Quote:

Is the same true of 'old you' and 'young you', that one is a continuation of the other, but they have distinct identities?

No. I am me my whole life. For the entire duration of my being.

And about this: "If you are destroyed, in that moment your being is complete." I understand this as meaning that when your being ends you are no more. Being means both "creature" and "existence" because there is no real difference between them. If you are a creature you have existence, and if you exist you are a creature.

I do not know if this is how Val reasoned, but this is one way to understand it. Hope it's not way off. Smile

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I completely agree with val here…

Quote:

if you are destroyed, in that moment your being is complete

http://smileyonline.free.fr/images/gif/bravo/vignette/thumbnails/yaisse_gif.gif

I’ll have to remember this one…

I’d have to add that we are not only our experiences, but also what we want to be.. our hopes and expectations, and we are also the person other people see in us… and ultimately, what people remember after our death (that is if we are even alive, but that is to be discussed in another topic :wink: )

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Completion is the loss of everything left to do.

Some people wish for never-ending non-completion,
(immortality!) and others rush anxiously to their own demise
smiling at the simplicity of having nothing left to fear.

What do we attain? An emptiness, and purity of existence.

Nil.

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CodeBorg wrote:

Completion is the loss of everything left to do.

Some people wish for never-ending non-completion,
(immortality!) and others rush anxiously to their own demise
smiling at the simplicity of having nothing left to fear.

What do we attain? An emptiness, and purity of existence.

Nil.

http://smileyonline.free.fr/images/gif/bravo/vignette/thumbnails/applause_gif.gif

Nicely put, I agree with this, but I would have to join the "never-ending non-completion" group. I just don't see the joys of having nothing left to fear. To me that is the same as having nothing to live for.... but that's just me...

Interesting question: would I be devastated should someone come up to me tomorrow and say: "Here. Everything you ever wanted will happen NOW!"?? I think I would if it's really *everything*..... wouldn't if we're talking about *some* things.... but that's all really unlikely, isn't it? And anyway, it's between me and me and I shouldn't write all this here....

http://smileyonline.free.fr/images/gif/pascompris/vignette/thumbnails/aeh_gif.gif

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struggle . . passion . . life

Try my new signature:

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Interesting...

I don't know about that... I've never dated a woman....

http://smileyonline.free.fr/images/gif/sourire/vignette1/thumbnails/1033307523_gif.gif

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My last girlfriend dated women all the time. Not because of me
or society, but because her nature
discovered love and pleasure and understanding
everywhere.

We almost got married (true story) until I realized that she
was already free.

I miss her bubbling laugh.

.

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Quote:

You may remember a discussion between Watchmaker's Guidedog and I on
consciousness over time and space in the 'should ethics apply to non-human animals' debate.

lol so that was what kept the thread going. I wasn't really following it, but I'll look at it.

Quote:

You are all the experiences you have in your life. Mental and sensorial experiences. That is you.

About the example you gave: if you are destroyed, in that moment your being is complete. The "I" you were has no more experiences, you have achieved the definition of yourself according to all experiences you had, beginning with your birth and completed with your death.
If they replicate your body, they create a being that has the memory of the experience of the being that was destroyed. The new being has not experienced that, since he begins know, and your experience is made in time

I think that "I" am the cognitive experience/ the continuation of experience throughout my life. So far I agree with you in this point. However, I do have a slight disagreement with the phrase, "completed with your death." I understand that what you mean is the process of life, but if it were to be taken to mean death as one being completed, I don't see death as a completion.

Back to the subject,
I think that if my body were to be destroyed and copied to somewhere else, I think that since the continuation of cognitivity is broken, the latter would not be the same as the former. However, I'm more unsure of what would it be if it were simultaneously replicated, but since the speed of light is the limit, there has to be a duration.

Sidenote:
I actually wrote this speculation derived from Descartes and Mysticism. One being dualistic and the latter being monistic I denounced Descartes' Dualism but accepted two planes of the universe (material and spiritual) while still maintaining that they're both of the same universe, except that in order for the two planes to be aware, it needs to intertwine in a certain way... It's kinda weird actually, so I'm not going to post it up, but dualism vs. monism is a part of this question isn't it? Laughing

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Yes, it seems like it is.

I don't see a logical distinction between 'you' artificially replicated after a certain amount of time, and 'you' replicated naturally over time as all the material that makes up your body changes.

If you are a continuity of experience, it seems that this is not because you are a continuity of substance.

Haven't had time to read it, and no idea if it's credible, but this seemed interesting: New dualism: Quantum physics in neuroscience and psychology

I've suspected for a while that quantum physics might have something to do with consciousness/experience/free will. But if it does, I'm not sure how it squares with continuity of experience. It seems to suggest to me that either: (a) every moment of experience in every experiencing thing is separate - there is no continuity, or (b) all experience is the same experience. Very, very tentatively suggested, I'm really fumbling in the dark here.

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djbt

Quote:

how can you be so confident about this? You talk as if you are teaching Ray a point of fact, not tentatively putting forward a suggestion, which seems inappropriate in this kind of discussion.

Djbt, it is obvious I was not teaching a lesson to anyone. I was simply expressing my perspective.
You must have patience with my english - I speak a very different language - that, sometimes seems so literal that it sounds like a "lesson".

Quote:

What do you mean by "achieved the definition of yourself"? How do you achieve a definition? And since the physical substance that makes us up changes throughout our lives, would you say that the 'you' when you are old has not experienced being 'you' when you were young?

I was not talking about definition in a semantical sense.
What I meant is this: since I believe that I am all experiences of my life, the process will end in death. No more experiences are possible. So, in death all the experiences of my live define, I mean, show, the being I am.

Regarding my idea of experience, I invite you to read the discussions between me and JL Nobody in several topics.

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val wrote:

Djbt, it is obvious I was not teaching a lesson to anyone. I was simply expressing my perspective.
You must have patience with my english - I speak a very different language - that, sometimes seems so literal that it sounds like a "lesson".

My apologies, I misunderstood you. Your english is so good I would not have guessed it was not your first language.

val wrote:

I was not talking about definition in a semantical sense.
What I meant is this: since I believe that I am all experiences of my life, the process will end in death. No more experiences are possible. So, in death all the experiences of my live define, I mean, show, the being I am.

In this sense, I see no reason to disagree. The point of argument is over whether or not you are 'all the experiences of my life', or something more, or something less.

val wrote:

Regarding my idea of experience, I invite you to read the discussions between me and JL Nobody in several topics.

I would love to, where should I look?

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Val, I'd say that you are all experiences of your life, but also you are all the experience of the whole bloodline leading up to you. "Your" experience is just the tip of the evolutionairy iceberg. Hidden under the surface is millions of years of evolutionary experience that you utilize all the time.

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This thread may be of some interest. It posed a similar question regarding identity and experience.

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You = continuity of experience

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