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Friendly Advice To Religious Fundamentalists

 
 
material girl
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 May, 2005 08:02 am
Not trying to pick a fight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whats the point in starting a thread??Did you think we wouldnt take the bait, naughty you.


Judge away!!
Its fun to at least attempt to feel superior by judgeing someone when they are trying to put you down by judgeing you.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 May, 2005 08:06 am
I only accused you of judging "christians" when you said ...

Quote:
"The arrogance that "Christians" display is overwhelming"


That does look a little judgemental to me.

(Up until then we were speaking of religious fundamentalists in general. I know you weren't refering to all christians)

I'm suggesting that what YOU are suggesting is that people should approach religion more like the way you do. Am I wrong?
0 Replies
 
yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 May, 2005 08:16 am
it's rather ironic for Christians to pass judgement on others, in light of what the gospel according to Matthew says about this practice:

Quote:
7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
0 Replies
 
material girl
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 May, 2005 08:26 am
Is being judged so bad?

We generally take it as an insult but if some things are pointed out, we can get over the anger and embarrassment and embrace the criticism and use it to improove ourselves.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 May, 2005 09:57 am
Eorl wrote:
I only accused you of judging "christians" when you said ...

Quote:
"The arrogance that "Christians" display is overwhelming"


That does look a little judgemental to me.

(Up until then we were speaking of religious fundamentalists in general. I know you weren't refering to all christians)

I'm suggesting that what YOU are suggesting is that people should approach religion more like the way you do. Am I wrong?


only this aspect am I suggesting. Don't judge. Not our place. This admonition is VERY specific. And I agree that I should have written " The arrogance that a GREAT MANY Christians display is overwhelming. Sorry 'bout that (well, sorta :wink: )
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 May, 2005 09:59 am
material girl wrote:
Judge away!!quote]

Okay I will. Bo should have beaten that little scoop of vanilla. Evil or Very Mad
0 Replies
 
tommrr
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 May, 2005 12:06 pm
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
material girl wrote:
Judge away!!quote]

Okay I will. Bo should have beaten that little scoop of vanilla. Evil or Very Mad

BVT, you been in da business long enough to know that the general public just sucks up the vanilla. You are probably also aware that some of the most talented people in music have never seen the inside of a record companies office. Sad but true. Confused
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 May, 2005 01:26 pm
tommrr wrote:
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
material girl wrote:
Judge away!!quote]

Okay I will. Bo should have beaten that little scoop of vanilla. Evil or Very Mad

BVT, you been in da business long enough to know that the general public just sucks up the vanilla. You are probably also aware that some of the most talented people in music have never seen the inside of a record companies office. Sad but true. Confused


true dat as the young people ay....
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 08:17 am
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
.....especially those who choose to tie their faith to politics.
I am sure that you NEVER vote based on anything you believe, think or feel strongly about. Right?

Probably just throw a dart at the board, right?
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 08:27 am
real life wrote:
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
.....especially those who choose to tie their faith to politics.
I am sure that you NEVER vote based on anything you believe, think or feel strongly about. Right?

Probably just throw a dart at the board, right?


There is a difference between voting your conscience and insinuating your beliefs on the constitution, particularly where separation of church and state are concerned.

But nice try. The high road can be difficult to manuever, so watch your step. that's biblical ya know. :wink:
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 08:41 am
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
real life wrote:
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
.....especially those who choose to tie their faith to politics.
I am sure that you NEVER vote based on anything you believe, think or feel strongly about. Right?

Probably just throw a dart at the board, right?


There is a difference between voting your conscience and insinuating your beliefs on the constitution, particularly where separation of church and state are concerned.

But nice try. The high road can be difficult to manuever, so watch your step. that's biblical ya know. :wink:
Oh, NOW I understand.

You "vote your conscience".

Those who vote differently than you are "insinuating their beliefs".

You talk pretty slick. Ever considering running for office? Take this 3 point quiz to see if you qualify:

a) Can you debate what the definition of "is" is with a straight face?

b) Have you ever invented or considered inventing the internet?

c) Can you say "I actually voted for it, before I voted against it." and really believe that you meant both?
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 03:26 pm
real life wrote:
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
real life wrote:
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
.....especially those who choose to tie their faith to politics.
I am sure that you NEVER vote based on anything you believe, think or feel strongly about. Right?

Probably just throw a dart at the board, right?


There is a difference between voting your conscience and insinuating your beliefs on the constitution, particularly where separation of church and state are concerned.

But nice try. The high road can be difficult to manuever, so watch your step. that's biblical ya know. :wink:
Oh, NOW I understand.

You "vote your conscience".

Those who vote differently than you are "insinuating their beliefs".

You talk pretty slick. Ever considering running for office? Take this 3 point quiz to see if you qualify:

a) Can you debate what the definition of "is" is with a straight face?

b) Have you ever invented or considered inventing the internet?

c) Can you say "I actually voted for it, before I voted against it." and really believe that you meant both?


actually I believe you do understand and are just taking a stance for the sake of it. Enjoy.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Oct, 2005 01:49 pm
There is a big difference between judgment and discernment.

God judges. We are to discern. If we discern something is wrong then yes, we point it out. However, we are not to condemn anyone. That is definitely not for anyone to do.

I just find it sad that even though some say I realize not all Christians are alike, they still talk as if they believe they are.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Oct, 2005 02:18 pm
I am not a theist, yet I judge people all the time. I also have the expectation that I will be judged by other people. I have a very strong sense of right and wrong, and expect people with whom I have a close relationship to have similar values.

Let me explain. I have friends that have totally different lifestyles than mine, different politics, different attitudes towards religion. That is fine, as far as I am concerned. To me, one the most important characteristics that a person can possess are honesty and integrity. I also believe that it is vital for people to respect the rights of others, and not attempt to force people into a mold of their own personal making.

That is not to say that I attempt to preach to people about the my own personal values. I don't, and will not even get into discussions of moral issues unless I am engaged in a conversation on the matter that is mutually acceptable to the individuals involved. But I will run like hell from a person whom I believe behaves in a way that I believe is counter to what I think is acceptable in a civilized society.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Oct, 2005 02:21 pm
Phoenix,

No one could ask for more than that. And I guess I should have clarified my we point something out statement. I don't mean I run around looking at people and pointing out things I think are wrong. I wish I had the gift for explaining things the way you do.

I will tell people what I think if asked.
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Oct, 2005 02:50 pm
I think the reason that christians get such a 'bashing' MA is because that tends to be the first bat someone swings with when it comes to arrogant personal beliefs.

What i mean -
It does take abit of arrogance to try to tell someone of something they dont know, but you DO.
It is the arrogance that tells us as people " we must share , it will help others lives" Yet , we truly know nothing of anothers life until we reside in their skin. Since that isnt possible, we speculate. We ASSUME the other person NEEDS to know what ever tidbit of information we may have in our hands. Our eagerness to share this tidbit , may cause us to overlook THEIR personal lives and deicsions and can , in some cases, be quite insulting. Espically when it comes to a personal religion/belief system/spiritual recognition..etc.
We all think that our chosen way is the one way. To take that thought, that each religious person has, and remeber the next person feels that way as well. When you approach with YOUR religious beliefs, you are , essentially.. telling that person that theirs is wrong. You are insulting their life, their person and their mind. Religion is a private thing, that people derrive many and all forms of self satisfaction, self recognition and self purpose from. In saying Mine is better then Yours, or Mine is right, Yours is wrong, you are tearing up their moral fiber and smiling while doing it.
It makes sense that people get pissed about someone trying to convert them.

( im sorry.. I was saying over and over again YOU , YOU, YOU.. those 'yous' were not aimed at you directly MA, or anyone else for that matter . I was speaking in very general terms )

Christianity is one of the most popular beliefs in america. There for, when someone wants to debate religious arrogance, they attack christianity first. Everyone can identify with it..
I mean, imagine if someone on this board were attacking.. ohh... lets say asatruism ?
Most people have no clue what that is. So why use something noone can identify with to make your point? It isnt necessarily singling OUT christians.. it is using a good majority of 'examples' .
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Oct, 2005 02:56 pm
Why didn't I come up with that. Genius. GENIUS I TELL YOU. (I'll steal it)
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Oct, 2005 02:59 pm
shewolfnm wrote:
I think the reason that christians get such a 'bashing' MA is because that tends to be the first bat someone swings with when it comes to arrogant personal beliefs.

What i mean -
It does take abit of arrogance to try to tell someone of something they dont know, but you DO.
It is the arrogance that tells us as people " we must share , it will help others lives" Yet , we truly know nothing of anothers life until we reside in their skin. Since that isnt possible, we speculate. We ASSUME the other person NEEDS to know what ever tidbit of information we may have in our hands. Our eagerness to share this tidbit , may cause us to overlook THEIR personal lives and deicsions and can , in some cases, be quite insulting. Espically when it comes to a personal religion/belief system/spiritual recognition..etc.
We all think that our chosen way is the one way. To take that thought, that each religious person has, and remeber the next person feels that way as well. When you approach with YOUR religious beliefs, you are , essentially.. telling that person that theirs is wrong. You are insulting their life, their person and their mind. Religion is a private thing, that people derrive many and all forms of self satisfaction, self recognition and self purpose from. In saying Mine is better then Yours, or Mine is right, Yours is wrong, you are tearing up their moral fiber and smiling while doing it.
It makes sense that people get pissed about someone trying to convert them.

( im sorry.. I was saying over and over again YOU , YOU, YOU.. those 'yous' were not aimed at you directly MA, or anyone else for that matter . I was speaking in very general terms )

Christianity is one of the most popular beliefs in america. There for, when someone wants to debate religious arrogance, they attack christianity first. Everyone can identify with it..
I mean, imagine if someone on this board were attacking.. ohh... lets say asatruism ?
Most people have no clue what that is. So why use something noone can identify with to make your point? It isnt necessarily singling OUT christians.. it is using a good majority of 'examples' .

Shewolfnm,

I completely understand. That is why I try very hard to not make those types of judgements with anyone. If someone asks what I believe, I tell them. If they ask me why I believe it, I tell them. I do not tell them what they believe is wrong or anything else. I think you can tell from my posts I try very hard to not come off that way.

Jesus said yes, share our testimony and our faith. But, He also says if we are met with scorn, disdain, anger, etc., then we are to stop doing it. And I have no problem in stopping. These threads do provide a rather good place to keep the discussion going longer than I probably would in person with someone. But, I guess that is one of the things they are for.

I believe we should all care about each other. I believe we should all share what works for us in our lives. In sharing things we can learn ways to co-exist without all the hassle.

There are some non-believers in these threads that I really enjoy sharing with. Those are the ones that do not make fun of or laugh at mine and other believers' beliefs. We can have great discussions and I have learned so much from them. I hope they feel the same way about the discussions.

And yes, there are those non-believers I haven't enjoyed the discussions with for different reasons.

But, I think understanding each other's position is probably the best place to start a dialog. I really do appreciate what you posted Shewolfnm. And not one of those YOUs did I take you meant personally. Your posts don't have that kind of tone to them.
0 Replies
 
 

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