TURN TO JESUS??

You are right Momma....but you know as well as I do what "religion" does to people and the things they justify in the name of God. **sigh**

Gunga - I printed off your post to read later, so I can concentrate.

However, one of the first things you said, 'suppose you aren't a flying bird, but want to become one'?

Understand again, I haven't read the rest of your post yet, but.......

A non flying creature does not decide to become a flying creature.

I'm pretty sure you're not in this group Gunga, but what I find is that many creationists don't have a firm grasp on the idea of how much time is involved.
This isn't about decades, centuries or even milenia. It's much bigger than that.

This just popped in my head, so simple, but I never thought of it before.....

In general, the closer people live to the equator, the darker their skin, the further north, the lighter (sorry, I know this is oversimplifing)

Does it not make sense that people evolved these different skin tones, the ones who where born with a skin tone more useful for their environment, were the ones who survived and bred?

Bella Dea wrote:



I sure do. That's why it is so important to not force it down anyone's throat.

I just find it so ironic that one that does not believe will ask you not to force your religion down their throat or respect your beliefs, all the while trying their hardest to show you how wrong you are; and in trying to do that they are trying to force it down your throat by getting angry and using unseemly language?

And what I really find ironic (and futile) is one who does not believe in the Bible will try to use the Bible to rebutt the Bible. To me, this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If you don't believe in something, why would you use it as part of your argument?

How can you put a lot of stock in what someone is trying to tell you if they don't believe in their rebuttal source?

Gunga,

You have anything to say about Sports Fans?

Re: lets try again!! ha ha



DAMN that is hillarious.
It describes most of the people in church.

ooo......

i better stay outta this thread.

Hasta la bye bye

What does it mean to "mong" something (or someone in this case)?

Why are psychics evil? If you have the sight, didn't God give it to you?

That is why we must practice tolerance. Satan directs the folks that you refer to in order to try and dislodge the believers from their belief. I have seen many quotes used from the bible as a means to refute the bible. There are just as many quotes to refute the words used by the dissenter. Many non-believers are afraid of the future (death) and lash out as a means to strengthen their resolve. Those of us who know what the future holds have no such fear and are able to move forward joyfully. In doing so, we should not push our religion on others. On the other hand, we should make the offer of sharing it as we are encouraged to in the scriptures. We can only offer and it is up to them to either accept or reject. In the meantime, we also have to overlook that which is thrown at us so that we can retain our own salvation. People can shun our words of encouragement, but they cannot shun the prayers that we say for them since they are not aware that we are doing so. As the bible says, and you have said in the forum....Jesus hates the sin, but loves the sinner.

Amen to that!

Well Gunga - I had the time to read your post more carefully.
Just like szoz, I'm not too keen on being informed I'm one of the unwashed masses who just "wouldn't understand"

My original statement stands.
From what I can see, your post keeps making the propisition, assumption, that some living thing is TRYING to become something else.

It just doesn't happen that way - as environmental changes happen (or don't happen) it's obvious that those creatures who are most sutited to the new environment (or the unchanged one) would be able, on the whole, to survive a little longer than others that were not a suited. If you survive longer, you will on the whole, be able to breed more youngin's who will carry your genes.

If you were an aquatic mammel whose flippers were a tad longer than your brothers, and was able to swim a little faster to get away from that sharp toothed creature behind you, chances are you'll live a little longer, meet up with another long flippered aquatic mammel of like kind who also made it past puberty, and have longer flippered babies, and so on.

Also, a physical characteristic does not automatically become vestigal just because it is not something used. Again, there is no plan saying, 'hey, I'm not using this part, and even though it's not getting in the way, I think I'll de-evole it.

You know a lot of big words Gunga, sometimes some people may think someone with a large vocabulary, who writes complex sentences must be right. I admire your obvious intelligence, but I can't help but see there is much double talk going on.

Evolution is a process governed by environment. A person who believes all living creatures evolved, and continue to evolve is not stupid, is not an idiot.
I have never had a problem with both believing in God and believing in evolution.
I mean, what more beautiful, ultimatley perfect system can be imagined?

I agree with you, Chai Tea. Intelliegent people realize that evolution does not negate Christianity..it complements it.

I have a question concerning the theory of evolution. If, that's a big IF to me, the evolution theory is correct, what started the process? Something, someone, etc., had to start it.

Intrepid,

In your first two short sentences you...

1) Urge tolerance.
2) Accuse people who disagree with you of being directed by Satan.

Somehow I find this amusing.

ebrown,

Someday, you won't find it amusing at all.

I believe that you have misunderstood what I was saying. Yes, I urge tolerance.

However, I did not accuse people of anything. I stated that Satan directs these things.... I also did not say anything about people not agreeing with me.

Intolerance can cause people to see something that is not there.

Could someone please answer my evolution question posed?

Sure, I'm not questioning THAT. I truly believe the spark behind it all is God.
That said....here's just a few random, unnconnected thought on evolution.

The Big BANG, String Theory, Galaxies expanding and contacting at a kajillion (that's a lot) miles an hour, knowing we are so intelligent, but at the same time (because we are so intelligent) realizing we are not the center of the universe, but "just" some out of the way, totally insignificant little solar system on the fringe of forever is just so awesome in the true sense of the word, is hard for me to imagine people NOT feeling closer to God just knowing we're part of it all.

If I thought for a moment that whatever the bible says is all the truth there is out there, I would just despair and know there was no purpose in continuing to live.

The bible, written by man, changed, edited, twisted around, misinterpreted, mistranslated, mispronounced, misunderstood is just so small when compared to the imcomprehensible hugeness, greatness, thrill of it all.

Those who would respond to me "the bible was inspired by God"

So? Many things are inspired by God. Being a scientist does not equal being an atheist. Books written by scientist can be inspired by God.

Perhaps God has been trying to get us to see the bible isn't the only material he's been the muse for.
God can be seen anywhere, if you're not afraid to look.

Ok Chai-Tea, let's see if I understand this correctly.

There is a God but He is not enough of a God that He can be considered the whole truth?

Chai-Tea Wrote:



So, you are willing to give God just some of the credit? He is not enough of a God to deserve all the credit? Does it matter in which manner He created things? Isn't what matters and is important is that HE DID IT?

Chai-Tea Wrote:



So, God's offer of grace, salvation, love, kindness, forgiveness of sins, redemption, and eternal life are not enough for you? If not, what more is it that you are looking for?

Chai-Tea Wrote:



Actually, I believe I said God-Breathed and God-Inspired.

Chai-Tea Wrote:



Ok, which is worse; being afraid to look or being afraid and/or unwilling to accept the answers? If one continues to search for the answer one wants to hear, then one does not want truth, one wants to be right.

God gives us the answers we need to hear. They are not necessarily the answers we want to hear because man wants what man wants. It is such a simple answer. God created us. God gave us a free will. God gave us laws to live by. Man, having free will makes the choice to either obey those laws or not. As within any society, if you do not obey the law you suffer the punishment. And, as within society, there is opportunity for redemption. If one does right by the law and serves one's time for the punishment, you get another chance. God offers salvation and redemption through His son Jesus Christ. He offers redemption from that punishment. So, why the focus by "those who do not believe" is on the punishment is a mystery to me. If one does right, one has no fear of punishment. What is more simpler than that?

And yes, just looking about you at trees, the sky, etc., as pointed out in the bible, shows there is a God.

You're putting words in my mouth Momma - The words I said were the words I said......

I did not say "there is a God but he is not enouth of a God that he can be consider the whole truth"
I did not say "he isn't enough of a God to deserve all the credit"

Does it matter in which manner he created things?
Well, Momma, did you not read the part where I am totally thunderstruck by the enormity of it all, feeling closer to God because of it?
I would return the same question to you.

"so, God's offer of .........are not enough for you?
I do not believe in original sin - people do not inherit sin. In my personal belief that is rediculous.
I do not believe we needed to be saved from anything.
The bible is a fine book, but again, personally, I believe that at one time it was the inspired writing of some people, but has become corrupted over the years by man putting his own meaning into it. I believe many written, spoken words have been inspired by God, also art music, through the raising of children, etc.
I don't think it's any more important than any other book.
"God-Breathed" sorry, not familiar w/ that phrase.

which is worse.....? huh?
I'm not searching for an answer to the creation of the world, solar system, galaxy, universe. I don't care if I'm right or wrong about this in the big cosmic wheel of life.
Like I've said before in so many words, "It is what it is" regardless of whatever millions of ways millions of people believe or express.

At the end of the day (figuratively) no one is going to be 100% correct, so musing about this is mentally stimulating, fun to see others viewpoints, etc. I didn't think I was attempting to convert anyone.

Yeah - God created us - but I don't believe he created us by taking a handful of dust or whatever it was and made a human being. I believe as I said before that in a way I have no understanding of life was created and evolved from that point - I don't find my presence any more remarkable or holy than an earthworm - It is just as improbable that was evolved as we were.

I'm sorry - I don't understand at all the last 3 lines of your post, starting with...So, why the focus...."
I don't recall saying anything about not believing, punishment or fear of punishment.....

Again, every person believes what they believe, I'm just a-listening and a-writing away just like everyone else.