"If . . ?"

A Jewish friend of mine tells me that the Jewish interpretation of this is that God has free will, and creating mankind in his image means creating mankind with free will.

We are as alike unto god as a drop of water is to the sea. The only flaw in this reasoning (or whatever it is) is a personified god. But this actually has more to do with our concepts of self rather than our concepts of god. It is remarkable, but we, and especially religious people, don't always see the difference.

If a God has anything to do with our creation, it is either sadistic or incompetent.

Evolution is the only logical explanation for our less-than-perfect bodies and minds, and especially all of the species of parasites.

The assertion that "Man is created in the image of God" implies only that humans look as God looks; that Jesus resembles his father, for example.

That is, "image" is limited to appearance, isn't it? That man may be in the "image of God" does not in any way imply God and man are similar in any other way.

(I speak philosophically here; I am not a Christian, so I really haven't the first clue if what I've said is "correct" in any theological sense.)

Re: "If . . ?"
Paul

I think that djbt gave the most interesting interpretation. Image defined not in an anatomical way, but as free will.

But there is a problem. If God did that he was joking. Assuming there is a God he is omniscient. Men are not. So, God gave men free will but not the knowledge. And free will without knowledge is contradictory.
So, in djbt interpretation, giving men free will without knowledge would be something like a cosmic joke.

And they went and took the knowledge anyway...

Moral of this story is, be thankful for what you are given, you ungrateful brats. I'd lay the blame on the one who named him Ol-iv... er... Adam.

Seriously though, I will raise your point Val, it's an interesting one, and see what response I get.

My question to you would be; why is free will without knowledge contradictory? Perhaps free will without any knowledge is contridictory, but I wouldn't say free will without all knowledge is.

Do you believe in free will? I started a thread about pain (does pain exist?) which I thought might be a useful way of looking at free will, but no-one seems interested...

I think he made George Burns a lot closer to his image than he made me.

djbt

I must say that I don't accept the concept of God. I was just following the reasoning of the topic.

The problem is: I know what a gun is. So I decide to shoot you in the head. You die. I know that the result of my free action is your death. But I don't know the results in a long term. My action creates new perspectives to your children that are beyond my knowledge. If you don't have children my action will prevent the human being named djbt of having children. I don't know what those children would be if they were given the possibility of living.
I don't even know what djbt would do in a week if I didn't kill him.
So, although I know the imediate result of my murderous action, I have not the knowledge of all it's consequences.

But a God, that doesn't exist in time, would know all the possibilities.
He would say: Val, with your stupid and FREE action you made impossible that djbt finds the cure for cancer. Or one of his children.
That is what I call a cosmic joke.

val, that's why I think if ANY one thing is pre-decided for any one of us by a god, then EVERY thing must be decided for EVERYBODY and that totally removes free will from the system.

Why can't you seem to shake the notion that god is an entity with a personality. Why is that?

Oops, misunderstood . . . remark withdrawn . . .

I think the point often missed is that if there is an invisible, supernatural being - a god, if you will, then it would be subject to the same genetic crap toss, to which we were all subjected at birth, and the chances are that it is a cogenital idiot!

[now it's all starting to make sense............. ]

That's the problem. The questions always start with "If". How can you expect to find anything then that you didn't know already?

there is one perspective that is easy to get your head around; if there is a deity controlling the universe (obviously totally incompetent), then this phenominal mess is an experiment that i, for one, do not wish to participate in any further. (and that can be its last official act on my behalf!)

[otherwise, we're stuck with it, and i'll do my best.]

I like the analogy that we are part of a large system, which is God. "We are all part of the Body of Christ" and "He is the tree and we are the branches", to quote biblical teaching.

This is really the only way I can describe my relationship with God and still have it make sense to me.

To break this analogy down further, God is a person with a body, and we are all his individual cells. We are in his image because we are made of similar smaller parts and have the same relationship with them as he does with us. If I choose to rebel against Him, he has ways of dealing with me just as we have ways of dealing with cells that do not function the way they should.

I don't care for each one of my cells as individual cells, but I certainly wouldn't do anything to jeopardize my entire body. I don't think God cares for anyone as individuals, but I would say he is pretty much directly involved with our well-being as a whole.

Every cell in my body is dependent on the other cells' well being and each has a separate design and function. They have a choice to contribute to my body's welfare or not to, but if they all contribute to my health to the level of their greatest potential, we all benefit. We have this same role in God's body. We can choose to cooperate, or not to. With pretty much the same results.

pinchehoto, one question;

this relationship you claim with a god....

How do you know it's a real thing? Do you just hope it is real, do you just feel it strongly, or do you somehow know for sure.

If you know for sure....how?

(I'm leaving aside for now the whole issue of who or what the god might or might not be)

very prudent . . .

Heya Setanta,

I've noticed it's very difficult to focus on one issue here, unless you head those pesky tangents off at the pass!

Eorl

And even that is no assurance, Boss . . . you should check out the last few pages of the "reincarnation" thread and the "Did God create him/herself" thread. Last night was very revealing about the provenance of one of our member's creed. It is highly entertaining, and at the same time demonstrates that credulity knows no limits.


(Sidebar: Is your screen named derived from the Tolkien mythos?)