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War against Iraq is based on lies, lies and more lies

 
 
John Webb
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2003 09:49 am
As a guide, yesterday in one incident, what was initially reported in America as two deaths from possible friendly fire, was reported by European T.V. as 15 deaths of American Servicemen from definite friendly fire. Quite a difference?
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2003 09:53 am
au1929 wrote:
John Webb
Quote:

Wait until the true death toll of coalition forces in Iraq is released, if ever. In other words, not the sanitized and much-reduced official version currently being reported to America by the media, but the vote-threatening genuine figures.


Do you know something our is it wishful thinking on your part. Why would you believe that the US would hide the figures on casualties? The fact is that they could not be hidden for long and if they came out later they would really be as you say vote threatening.


Yeah, John. Are you quite sure you're not committing some of the same kind of propagandizing you're accusing others of? What do you base your idea about falsified figues on, besides a very sizeable distrust of the current administration?
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2003 10:01 am
John Webb

Quote:
As a guide, yesterday in one incident, what was initially reported in America as two deaths from possible friendly fire, was reported by European T.V. as 15 deaths of American Servicemen from definite friendly fire. Quite a difference
?

And of course I would suppose that you believe that the European press always tells the truth????
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John Webb
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2003 10:33 am
Unfortunately for the manipulators, amongst the many injured American survivors, was a respected B.B.C. reporter (also injured) complete with camera who was able to broadcast almost immediately the whole story, numbers killed and show the subsequent devastation on European TV.

Although, not unbiased, I would not have mentioned the story, but for the incredible differences.

It is also reported that massive looting by Iraqis and U.S. personnel is now taking place in the 'liberated' areas across Iraq.

Is this more Republican civilising of Iraq which the Bush Administration would prefer went unreported at home?
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2003 11:03 am
WORLD

Report: 20 missles found with potent chemical weapons

Posted: Monday, April 7, 10:52am EDT

US forces near Baghdad found a weapons cache of around 20 medium-range missiles equipped with potent chemical weapons, National Public Radio reported citing an official of the 1st Marine Division.
NPR said the rockets, BM-21 missiles, were equipped with sarin and mustard gas and were "to fire." It quoted the source as saying new US intelligence data showed the chemicals were "not just trace elements."

It said the cache was discovered by Marines with following up behind the Army after it seized Baghdad's international airport.

US Central Command headquarters in Qatar had no immediate comment.
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owi
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2003 12:36 pm
Article of http://www.mirror.co.uk:

FRIENDLY FIRE..THE COST OF CONFLICT

Apr 7 2003



FRIENDLY fire incidents and tragic accidents involving coalition troops have been an almost daily occurrence since the start of the war:

MARCH 21: Eight British soldiers from 3 Commando and four US Marines killed when helicopter crashes in Kuwait.

MARCH 22: Two Royal Navy Sea King helicopters collide in the Gulf. All seven crew killed. US soldier dies in vehicle accident in Iraq.

MARCH 23: US Patriot missile brings down British Tornado jet near Kuwaiti border, killing two crew including pilot Kevin Main. US Marine killed in vehicle accident in Kuwait.

KILLED: Kevin Main

MARCH 24: Marine killed by accidental discharge of machine-gun in Iraq.

MARCH 25: Two British soldiers killed in exchange of fire between two British Challenger tanks near Basra.

MARCH 26: One US Marine killed in southern Iraq when armoured vehicle runs over them.

MARCH 28: US soldier killed when a Bradley fighting vehicle rolls off a cliff in Iraq.

MARCH 29: One British soldier killed and five injured north of Basra. US Marine drowns when the Humvee he is travelling in rolls into canal in south Iraq.

MARCH 30: Three US troops killed and fourth injured when marine helicopter crashes. British soldier killed in road traffic accident in Kuwait.

MARCH 31: British bomb disposal expert killed in southeastern Iraq.

APRIL 1: British soldier killed in accident involving a light armoured vehicle. US soldier killed when his weapon discharges at Camp Coyote.

APRIL 2: Single-seat fighter-bomber downed in southern Iraq, pilot missing. US Marine killed near the city of Kut when his gun accidentally fires into his chest as he sleeps. US Marine in Nassiriya killed when his rifle gets snagged in low-hanging power lines.

APRIL 3: Three US soldiers killed in bombing of US artillery position south of Baghdad. US soldier killed in central Iraq.

APRIL 3: American soldier and US journalist killed in accident involving their Humvee military vehicle.

APRIL 5: Two US Marines killed when their helicopter crashes in central Iraq. Central Command says it was not result of hostile fire.

APRIL 6: Up to 18 people, including US special forces and Kurds, killed and 50 injured when US plane drops bomb on their convoy.


and here's the online-bbc article of the, as far as I know, latest incident: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2921807.stm
0 Replies
 
frolic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2003 01:50 pm
au1929 wrote:
John Webb

Quote:
As a guide, yesterday in one incident, what was initially reported in America as two deaths from possible friendly fire, was reported by European T.V. as 15 deaths of American Servicemen from definite friendly fire. Quite a difference
?

And of course I would suppose that you believe that the European press always tells the truth????


Because the US army now admits 18 people got killed in the incident. They even said that 4 US soldiers were lost in this blue on blue. This story was denied by the Kurds saying all the casualties were Kurds and a very senior leader was critical injured. The fog of war! Again.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2003 01:50 pm
When British, European and Canadian sources agree on a report, I go with them. We've had far too much bs in the US media to put much stock in it. It's a little like taking your medicine: take it late if you want, but you'd save yourself a lot of aggravation if you'd just take it when it's handed to you! We've had a lot of "old medicine" coming out of the Pentagon -- first denials and then, days or weeks later (sometimes after quite a lot of "say it ain't so" in these forums), verifications of the original story.

I heard the BBC story earlier... I hope.... meaning that I hope there haven't been two similar incidents...
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John Webb
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2003 03:11 pm
au1929, do you or anyone else know what the range of a BM-21 missile is, since medium range is kind of misleading and can mean anything from say 20 miles to 3000 miles and very short-range compared with a moon rocket? Rolling Eyes
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John Webb
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2003 05:25 pm
au1929, having carried out some research, it would seem the BM-21 missile has a range of approximately 12 miles. It follows that the only way it which it could conceivably pose a threat to the United States would be if President Bush moved the whole American continent to within say 11 miles of Iraq. An awesome task beyond even this Administration.

Not exactly a justification for this invasion? Cool Still, I'm sure Bush and Rumsfeld can claim it poses a deadly threat to America - providing the media are too dumb to notice. Evil or Very Mad
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2003 07:29 pm
The North Koreans on the other hand have made it quite clear that they wish to develop missiles capable of reaching Australia, if they haven't already.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2003 07:33 pm
John Webb wrote:
Unfortunately for the manipulators, amongst the many injured American survivors, was a respected B.B.C. reporter (also injured) complete with camera who was able to broadcast almost immediately the whole story, numbers killed and show the subsequent devastation on European TV.


Those were among the most troubling images of the war I've seen so far, and I had been wondering straight away whether they'd ever reached the US.

There was BBC's John Simpson, who had been the first Western reporter into Kabul, telling how they were trying to save the life of their translator - they didnt succeed ...

Most shocking of all, the images the cameraman had shot while the attack was under way: the bombs fell, he fell to the ground, a blot of blood splattered onto the camera lense, he wiped it off - it was his own blood, had a head wound - but he filmed on, images of running, of his wounded colleagues, and time and again he hurriedly tried to smear the blood off of the lense, unsuccesfully, while more booms echoed and screams were, "they're starting again!".

It turned out the marines that accompanied the convoy made up of themselves, Kurdish fighters and British journalists, had called up air support because they suspected enemy tanks further down the road - the airplanes came, and bombed them, instead ...

Did you know that, until early yesterday at least, according to the BBC more British troops had been killed by American "friendly fire" than by Iraqi attacks?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2003 07:35 pm
The American troops are responsible for killing some Kurds too. This war just ain't worth the cost. c.i.
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John Webb
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 01:30 am
According to claims by coalition leaders, Saddam is dead.

Therefore, all their ALLEGED objectives have been achieved. The destruction of (imaginary) illegal weapons and the freeing of the Iraqi people through the death of Saddam Hussein.

Is it not curious, that they are continuing with their invasion and bombing the now leaderless Iraqi people?

Or are the true agenda and colors of the Bush Administration and their friends at last being revealed? Total subjugation of a sovereign nation and theft of their mineral wealth!
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 04:34 am
John Webb wrote:
According to claims by coalition leaders, Saddam is dead.

Therefore, all their ALLEGED objectives have been achieved. The destruction of (imaginary) illegal weapons and the freeing of the Iraqi people through the death of Saddam Hussein.

Is it not curious, that they are continuing with their invasion and bombing the now leaderless Iraqi people?

Or are the true agenda and colors of the Bush Administration and their friends at last being revealed? Total subjugation of a sovereign nation and theft of their mineral wealth!


Hell, maybe they're gonna eat Iraqi kids too when their MREs run low, huh? Geez.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 11:27 am
One of the reporters killed at the Palestine Hotel was Spanish. Spain will not let this go -- with 90% of its citizens against the war -- if there is any hint of intention or carelessness on the part of American military.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2003 09:46 am
Quote:
Officials inside government and advisers outside told ABCNEWS the administration emphasized the danger of Saddam's weapons to gain the legal justification for war from the United Nations and to stress the danger at home to Americans.

"We were not lying," said one official. "But it was just a matter of emphasis."

Full story.

So why didn't the administration tell the American people it was overemphasizing the danger from the weapons they claimed represented an imminent threat -- in order to gain support for committing mass slaughter in their name and sending their loved ones to their deaths?

Quote:
Officials now say they may not find hundreds of tons of mustard and nerve agents and maybe not thousands of liters of anthrax and other toxins.


So why didn't Bush tell the American people we "might not find" the weapons he claimed represented the reason for committing mass slaughter in their name and sending their loved ones to their deaths?

Quote:
Beyond that, the Bush administration decided it must flex muscle to show it would fight terrorism, not just here at home and not just in Afghanistan against the Taliban, but in the Middle East, where it was thriving.


So why didn't the Bush administration tell the American people it would be committing mass slaughter in their name and sending their loved ones to their deaths to "flex US muscle" in the Middle East -- and not in response to an imminent threat?

Quote:
The Bush administration wanted to make a statement about its determination to fight terrorism.


So why didn't the Bush administartion tell the American people it would be committing mass slaughter in their name and sending their loved ones to their deaths in order to "make a statement" -- and not in response to an imminent threat?

Quote:
And officials acknowledge that Saddam had all the requirements to make him, from their standpoint, the perfect target.


So why didn't the Bush administration tell the American people it would be committing mass slaughter in their name and sending their loved ones to their deaths to target an individual that made a "perfect" symbol -- and not in response to an imminent threat?

Quote:
One official said that in the end, history and the American people will judge the United States not by whether U.S. officials find canisters of poison gas or vials of some biological agent.

History will judge the United States, the official said, by whether this war marked the beginning of the end for the terrorists who hate America.


So why didn't Bush tell the American people THE TRUTH--that it would be committing mass slaughter in their name and sending their loved ones to their deaths as a gamble--and not in response to an imminent threat?

Could it be that the warmongerers knew the American people would not allow the slaughter of thousands of Iraqi civilians, the slaughter of 135 US servicemen, and the destruction of a country in their name -- on the basis of a muddled collection of unsupported hunches, gambles, and lies?

Could it be the unelected, illegitimate election thief and his cabal hold the American people in contempt, and believe that the people, whose loved ones would be ordered to their deaths, cannot be trusted to award the regime the power and support to which it is entitled? Just as they couldn't be trusted to have given the regime sufficient votes to which it was entitled?

Could it be that the Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld and Perle and all the rest knew the risk was just too high? That the American people would see through even the flimsy justification of rolling the dice blindly and hoping "history shows" a positive outcome at some point -- right through to the more obvious motives of profit and political gain?

Flashback to January, 2003:

Quote:
MR. FLEISCHER: I think if you take a look at all the public surveys on this issue, there's a lot of Americans who believe that Saddam Hussein does, indeed, pose a threat. And they believe --

Q They'll give their brothers, their husbands, their children?

MR. FLEISCHER: -- and they believe that if the President, knowing what he knows, makes the determination that the best way to protect the American people from the risks that we have seen our nation is vulnerable to --

Q So he believes people want to go to war?

MR. FLEISCHER: -- is to disarm Saddam Hussein from having weapons of mass destruction, the President will make a case --

Q We have weapons of mass destruction. Eight other countries have them.

MR. FLEISCHER: And how many resolutions has the United Nations passed urging us to not have the weapons that we have that have successfully kept the peace for 50 years?

Q How many other nations have defied U.N. resolutions and gotten away with it?

MR. FLEISCHER: None like Saddam Hussein on a measure that has been this unequivocal...


Transcript

This editorial once agains come courtesy of The Horse.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2003 10:00 am
PDid, All double speak from this administration - as usual. c.i.
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2003 12:10 am
It's become quite simple. I will never believe one word that comes from the mouths of members of the US administration.

But then you can't expect the truth from mass murderers, child killers and war criminals.
0 Replies
 
frolic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2003 12:37 am
John Webb wrote:
According to claims by coalition leaders, Saddam is dead.


You mean dead like Osama Bin Laden, Radovan Karadzic and Mladic?

Or dead like "i saw him on TV with a bullet is his head"?
0 Replies
 
 

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