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War against Iraq is based on lies, lies and more lies

 
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Mar, 2003 01:45 pm
steissd wrote:
I think, China does not completely conform a definition of rogue regime...By all means, they do not seriously threaten anyone.


I'm sure that the parents of the students who died in Tianamen Square clamoring for freedom would beg to differ with your assessment.

(Wonder why we aren't invading China? Oh, of course...no oil.)
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Mar, 2003 02:41 pm
PDiddie
Doyou think by any stretch of the imagination that we would invade China oil or no oil? Bush may be a lunitic but even that has it's limits.
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steissd
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Mar, 2003 04:21 pm
PDiddie wrote:
(Wonder why we aren't invading China? Oh, of course...no oil.)

There is no oil in Yugoslavia either, but it was invaded...
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Mar, 2003 08:14 pm
When was Yugoslavia ever invaded by the United States? Rolling Eyes

If you speak of the multi-national UN peacekeeping force that occupied Bosnia, well, that hardly stands in comparison to what we're about to do to Iraq...
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frolic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Mar, 2003 02:29 am
steissd wrote:
I think, China does not completely conform a definition of rogue regime. They develop their society in their own pace, without being in a hurry. By all means, they do not seriously threaten anyone.


And Iraq is? When and where did Iraq threatened the US?
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Mar, 2003 10:05 am
I find myself agape at how history is repeating itself.

In September 1992 Senator and Vice Presidential candidate Al Gore addressed the Center for International Policy and articulated a comprehensive dissertation on the inconsistencies, fabrications and collaboration between the Reagan/Bush I administrations and Saddam Hussein.

Below are extended relevant excerpts from his speech and the entire speech, in PDF format, may be downloaded from the link at the end. In today's Bush administration, in which Saddam is vilified as Hitler reincarnate, it is telling to remember that the cast of characters is largely unchanged from the period reviewed by Gore. (It is important to remind that the 'President Bush' Gore refers to is, of course, George H.W. Bush.)



President Bush, in his handling of our policy toward Iraq [has shown] poor judgment, moral blindness and bungling policies led directly to a war that should never have taken place. U.S. taxpayers are now stuck with paying the bill for $1.9 billion President Bush gave to Saddam Hussein even though top administration officials were repeatedly told Saddam was using our dollars to buy weapons technology. [The Persian Gulf War] had deep roots, and if George Bush's prosecution of the war is part of his record, so too is his involvement in the diplomacy which led to it, both in the Reagan/Bush era, and more so, during his presidency when he accelerated foreign aid and the sale of weapons technology to Iraq -- right up until the invasion of Kuwait -- in spite of repeated warnings that anyone with common sense would have had no difficulty understanding.

Nineteen months ago [January 1991 - the onset of the Iraq war], President Bush called Saddam Hussein a new Hitler who had to be stopped at all costs. Yet today, that same tyrant remains firmly in power, resisting by every means the will of the international community. George Bush wants the American people to see him as the hero who put out a raging fire. But new evidence now shows that he is the one who set the fire. He not only struck the match, he poured gasoline on the flames. So give him credit for calling in the fire department, but understand who started the blaze.

In September of 1980, Iraq invaded Iran. Iraq was the odds-on favorite to win the war in short order. However, by May 1982, Iraq was clearly in trouble. It had lost a major battle with Iran. Our policymakers began to imagine Iran under a radical Islamic government emerging as the dominant regional power: a nightmare. I believe that is why, in February 1982, President Reagan took Iraq off the list of states that sponsored terrorism. By doing so, President Reagan opened the way for Iraq to receive US credits through subsidized agricultural loan guarantees and Export-Import Bank credits.

In other words, for strategic reasons, the Reagan/Bush Administration would overlook virtually any unpleasant reality in Iraq, and apparently subvert US laws in order to prop up Saddam Hussein's brutal regime.

George Bush cannot even claim ignorance where policy toward Iraq was concerned. Not only was he directly in the loop, he was a principal architect of the policy from its earliest days. For example, in April of 1984, Bush personally lobbied the Ex-Im Bank's chairman--a friend from college days--to disregard the views of his own economists, and extend credits to Iraq. Doubts about Iraq's credit-worthiness were very well-founded. But the overriding issue was whether Iraq could continue to hold on in the war with Iran. That's all that seemed to matter.

In pursuit of that objective, the Reagan/Bush Administration was prepared to overlook the fact that the terrorist who masterminded the attack on the Achille Lauro and the savage murder of American Leon Klinghoffer fled with Iraqi assistance.

Iraq not only stayed off the terrorist list, but in November 1984, full diplomatic relations were established with the country. The US government continued to exert every effort to channel assistance to Saddam Hussein--even with evidence that he was not only promoting terrorism, but was also pursuing a nuclear weapons program. As early as May of 1985, Assistant Secretary of Defense Richard Perle warned about the suspected diversion of US exports of dual-use technology to the Iraqi nuclear weapons program. But Bush ensured that the flow of technology continued.

In March 1987, Bush again took a prominent role: when Iraq's ambassador complained that our Defense Department was taking too long and being too cautious about export licenses for high tech items, Bush apparently agreed with him that the Defense Department was being capricious and had to get with the program.

There might have been a moment's pause for reflection when Iraqi aircraft intentionally attacked the USS Stark in May 1987, killing 37 sailors -- but the Administration smoothed it over very fast. This was the spring when the Ex-Im Bank staff resisted another $200 million loan for Iraq, but again the loan was granted after Bush again personally intervened to stress its political importance. The loan went through in May, just two days before the attack on the Stark.

The outrage and disgust at Saddam's use of poison gas against the Kurds ignited an intensification of efforts to pull the plug on US assistance to Iraq. I myself went to the Senate floor twice demanding tough action. But these efforts were resisted to the bitter end by the Reagan/Bush and Bush/Quayle Administrations. For example, they pulled out all the stops to defeat the Prevention of Genocide Act, after the US Senate had passed it unanimously in September of 1988.

Most significant of all, in [April 1989], the CIA reported to Secretary of State James Baker and other top Bush administration officials that Iraq was clandestinely procuring nuclear weapons technology through a global network of front companies.

Now, in the midst of this flood of highly alarming information, on October 2, 1989, President Bush signed a document known as National Security Directive 26, which established policy toward Iraq under his Administration.

NSD-26 mandated the pursuit of improved economic and political ties with Iraq on the assumption that Iraqi behavior could be modified by means of new favors to be granted. Perhaps so, if this were a state not under the complete control of a single man whose ruthlessness was already totally apparent. The text of NSD-26 blindly ignores the evidence already at the Administration's disposal of Iraqi behavior in the past regarding human rights, terrorism, the use of chemical weapons, and the pursuit of advanced weapons of mass destruction.

It leaps from the page, that George Bush, both as Vice President and President, had done his utmost to make sure that no such sanctions would ever apply to Saddam Hussein. Consequently, the question is unavoidable: why should Saddam Hussein be concerned about a threat of action in the future from the same man who had resolutely blocked any such action in the past? To the contrary Saddam had every reason to assume that Bush would look the other way -- no matter what he did.

In January of 1990, President Bush issued a determination that exempted Iraq from section 512 of the Foreign Operations Appropriations Act of November 1989 prohibiting further loans to Iraq [o]n grounds of "national security".

In February 1990, Saddam Hussein called for the removal of US military forces from the Persian Gulf. And yet, the same month, the Administration actually apologized to Saddam for the content of a Voice of America broadcast criticizing Iraq's human rights record.

n July, as Iraqi tanks and soldiers massed on the Kuwaiti border, the Senate tried to pass another sanctions bill against Iraq...and the Administration opposed it. Not only that, but on the eve of the invasion, the Bush/Quayle Administration kept selling Saddam dual- use technology such as sophisticated computers, flight simulators, and equipment to manufacture gun barrels.

President Bush has explicitly denied that his policies enhanced Saddam Hussein's nuclear, biological and chemical capabilities. He denied this, not only in an official report to Congress in the fall of 1991, but as recently as June 13th and July 1st of this year, when Bush said: "We did not enhance Saddam Hussein's nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons capability." But as I have just mentioned, his own Secretary of State knew differently at least as of July 1990.

And incredibly, immediately following the war, President Bush reverted to form. At President Bush's encouragement, an armed resistance to Saddam Hussein sprang up in Iraq. But at the critical moment, it was George Bush's decision to betray that resistance by tolerating Saddam Hussein's use of attack helicopters to put down the rebellions. That was a clear violation of the terms of the ceasefire, and it was a violation we had more than enough power to suppress.

Saddam is a Bush Man
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2003 03:32 pm
"They were concerned that we not get into a position where we shifted, instead of being the leader of an international coalition to roll back Iraqi aggression, to one in which we were an imperialist power, willy-nilly moving into capitals in that part of the world, taking down governments."

-- Dick Cheney, during the 2000 campaign on why other countries were glad we didn't remove Saddam Hussein from power in 1991
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frolic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2003 03:12 pm
Even now Rumsfeld keeps lying. He said on a press conference that there were 4 oil wells on fire! Reporters from Reuters on the ground in Basra say there is no sign of burning oil wells!
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2003 03:21 pm
Iran has been mighty quiet during this whole thing....makes me wonder....
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2003 07:51 pm
Some critics have questioned how much of a true coalition this is, given that only three countries -- the U.S., U.K. and Australia -- have actually sent soldiers. Asked about this apparent weakness in the "coalition," White House press secretary Ari Fleischer on Tuesday said that the White House has "all along said, in terms of actual active combat, there will be very, very few countries."

Since that admission, the White House has gone on an offensive to prove how multilateral this coalition is. It's No. 1 in the administration's talking points. But they may have gone too far. On Thursday, when Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told reporters that the coalition behind Operation Iraqi Freedom is even bigger than the one behind Operation Desert Storm, even some military leaders and veterans of Republican administrations disagreed and were dismayed at the disingenuousness. Meanwhile, some countries the U.S. counts as among the "willing" are continuing to criticize the U.S. military moves against Iraq, raising questions about how willing they really are.


From Yahoo!:

The United States dropped Angola from the public list of "coalition of the willing" nations supporting war on Iraq, but added Costa Rica, Palau, and Panama for a net gain of two declared members.

The maneuvering brought to 46 the total of countries that publicly back the US-led military campaign. Washington has trumpeted the list in an attempt to drown out stubborn world opposition to the war.

The African nation was on the official White House internet list on Thursday, but had vanished from the accounting a day later. White House and State Department officials offered no explanation for the change.

They also insist that some supporters have refused to be named.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2003 08:49 am
PDiddie
What does this scorecard amount to? Nothing. It is just a childish attempt to justify the action in Iraq. IMO it would be better for the administration to shut up and finish what they started with as little attempt at justification as possible. I don't know whether the administration is a stupid as they seem or they think the rest of the world is. One thing is sure they failed diplomacy 101
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2003 09:30 am
This kills me. Religious leaders including the pope are against the war. All this talk of evil-doers and axis of evil.... what ind of christian is Bush that he finds a will to direguard the pope's wishes? I hate the hypocrisy.

BBC
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2003 10:32 am
littlek
Quote:
what kind of Christian is Bush that he finds a will to disregard the pope's wishes? I hate the hypocrisy.


I do not want to deride any ones religion so I will be very careful in choosing my words. However, for millions of people around the world the pope's words carry no special meaning. He is just another human being and certainly not infallible. You also ask what kind of Christian is he [Bush]as if Christians have the good and evil thing all wrapped up. History has certainly put a lie to that. I am sorry for the digression but couldn't let your statement go unchallenged
Unless you get the idea I am defending the administrations actions, I am not. I just don't think that religion and politics or government are a good marriage.
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frolic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Mar, 2003 05:10 am
CNN, BBC, FOX, ITN=> All instruments in the hands of the army. The "embeds" dont have any right to write or show what they want.

Journalists going into Iraq on their own are fired upon by American Soldiers(by accident?) We hear no figures about the death toll among Soldiers or civilians. This war is one big lie and the media help creating that lie!!!
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Mar, 2003 04:34 pm
From Meet the Press yesterday:

ANDREA MITCHELL: And I think, as well, that frankly we in the media did not cover the anti-war movement as it was moving along on the Internet. We weren't focused on that. And now, brilliantly, the Pentagon has accomplished the fact with embedding that we're watching the war unfold in slices, if you will, maybe not getting the big picture, but trying to.
TIM RUSSERT: But real time.
MITCHELL: But real time. And so this anti-war debate seems harder to get a handle on. It becomes less "relevant." Not that it is less relevant, but it is less dramatic. And I think we have to be careful about balancing that, frankly.
RUSSERT: And when we see pictures tonight of American men being executed, it's very difficult to have any tolerance for people (emphasis mine) who are saying, "Wait a minute," although that is what America is all about.


And why is that, exactly, Mr. Russert?

Why is it "very difficult to have any tolerance" for the people who never wanted to send American soldiers into this battle to begin with?

In the exceedingly unlikely event that the anti-war movement had won the day, those servicemen would still be alive this morning.


WHAT THE HELL IS SO HARD TO TOLERATE ABOUT THAT?
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Mar, 2003 07:16 pm
PDiddie wrote:
The United States dropped Angola from the public list of "coalition of the willing" nations supporting war on Iraq, but added Costa Rica, Palau, and Panama for a net gain of two declared members.


Palau! Palau has joined the coalition, the coalition of those-willing-to-be-mentioned-on-a-list.

All will be well.

<giggles>.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Mar, 2003 07:21 pm
Au - I'm not religious myself, but the man keeps spouting about god blessing this and that. The catholic church has done some terrible things in the past and are doing some ungodly things now. I really can't tell you where I was coming from with the above statemtent. Except that you'd think the pope's words along with many other religious leaders' would have some weight.
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frolic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Mar, 2003 06:29 am
The US and GB army officials are lying to us and we here no protest whatsoever.

An fine example of how people were deceived.

Quote:
...US defence officials said on Friday that the commander and the vice commander of the division had surrendered to marines in the southern Iraqi desert.

The 51st division had about 200 tanks before the war, and was one of the better trained and equipped divisions, US officials said...

SURRENDER CLAIM DENIED


Today, tuesday, we here that very same 51st division is attacking British army units in the south of Basra!

What can we believe of the US army statements?
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frolic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Mar, 2003 05:45 am
A glimp of truth.

For the first time a US official said on the record that so far no Scud has been fired on Kuwait.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Mar, 2003 10:38 am
littlek, We should all understand by now that the only time politicians will use "religion" is when they think it enhances their position on anything they do. Negatives are never allowed - or haven't you noticed? c.i.
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