Landlord vs. Tenant (Round 3)

do you have a written lease with your tenant or is it a month-to-month verbal agreement?

does she get disability from her bus driver's job?

We have a signed one year lease (we are 6 months into it).

She didn't hurt her back at work so she isn't (at least to my knowledge) collecting disability.

I would assume that if the lease makes no mention of the number of persons allowed to occupy the space that you have no recourse if she decides to add another person to the mix. It may be a violation for you to limit the number of family members living in this space.

If there is an official lease, I am sure that there is no exception for non-payment of rent, so she cannot reasonably expect you to do without rent. How determined would you be if she misses paying her rent - would you evict her?

Unless, of course, if there's a state or local law limiting occupancy based on number of bedrooms, or something like that.

Yes there can be a limit to occupancy but only in the case of non-related parties. You could limit a two-bedroom apartment to four roommates (who are not related) but you cannot limit the number of people if they are family. You could have the same two-bedroom with a mother, father, and two children and if they have sextuplets, you cannot evict them on the basis of occupancy. I am assuming this is the reason she wants to foster a child - wouldn't the child be considered family? and not just an additional (unrelated) occupant.

Well that is what I was wondering... technically she isn't adopting the foster kid which is why (in my mind at least) it would be different from her having another biological child, or even adopting another child for that matter.

Wisconsin is very tenant friendly and landlord unfriendly. It is my understanding, that under current state law, if we were to try to evict her, she does not have to leave, or even pay rent, until there is a court decision for or against. A court decision would more than likely take months.

Instead of going through the hasle of an eviction we were thinking about just allowing her to break the lease... if she would agree to that.

Review your state laws and consult with an attorney.

See e.g. Fair Housing Law

http://www.dwd.state.wi.us/dwd/publications/23a6/ERD9523-PWEB.pdf

It is unlawful to discriminate against a person in housing, even in part, because of that person’s protected class.

WHAT ARE EXAMPLES OF DISCRIMINATION?
· Refusing to rent or negotiate with someone for the rental or sale of a dwelling.

· Failing to renew a lease or lying about the availability of a dwelling.

Family status is a protected class and includes any household with minor children. A person who is pregnant or seeking custody of a child, or is planning adoption or guardianship is included.

It doesn't appear that you are allowed to discriminate against your tenant because she may be planning to become a foster parent. Consult an attorney in your area.

What does the LEASE say about loud noise, disturbances, or the quiet enjoyment of others? Did you put anything in the lease to protect yourself from noisy tenants that interfere with YOUR quiet enjoyment of your own unit? Having three children live above you might be disquieting, but again, you have to be careful not to voice any discriminatory animus towards your renter.

What about nonpayment of rent? Does your LEASE provide that time is of the essense? Have you accepted late rent payments in the past? Does your LEASE have a non-waiver clause?

Are you aware of the summary eviction laws in your jurisdiction for nonpayment of rent? Perhaps you can have an attorney write your tenant a letter acknowledging her recent conversation with you (re: unemployment for the entire summer) and reminding her that despite the financial difficulties that she expects to face this summer, that timely payment of rent is an essential term of the lease.

If your tenant fails to pay rent on time--at least she has been warned in writing that you will not waive the timely payment of rent to accommodate her unemployed status (basically, this isn't your problem--she has to pay her rent whether she works or not)--and you can efficiently evict her from the premises through a summary proceeding. Again, read the laws on summary eviction and consult a lawyer:

http://wis-law.com/tenant.html

http://wis-law.com/tenanttermination.html

http://wis-law.com/tenant704.html#anchor3275933

The law must be followed exactly; no deviation allowed. It is a recipe, so to speak, and if you fail to follow the recipe as set forth in the statutes, you LOSE and subject yourself to wrongful termination claims.

Be careful NOT to express any discriminatory animus toward her "family status," e.g., plans to become a foster mother because something like that could cause problems for you under state fair housing laws. Again, consult your laws and an attorney.

If she wants out of the lease, and you're willing to let her out of the lease, that sounds like a reasonable solution to her summer unemployment woes--at least where you and your wife are concerned. It is far better to let the unit sit empty while you screen for a more suitable tenant than to allow a non-paying tenant to occupy the space and to put yourself through the legal difficulties of eviction.

Thanks for that Debra. One question... under the examples of discrimination they list Family Status as a protected class:



Later it says under exceptions under the law:



Now it sounds to me like this refers to people not yet renting but seeking a place to rent. I will post some specifics of the lease later (i don't have it in front of me right now) but I know I do have a statement in there that limits the lease to the names already on the lease. I also have sections limiting noise and a very specific payment terminology.

I think the whole thing depends on the definition of the relationship between foster child and gaurdian. Obviously, if the person was having a child or adopting I couldn't (nor would I want to) do anything about it, but since she has already signed a lease that limits the lease to the names on the lease do you think she would have a legal right to bring in a non-blood related child to live there?


The good news is all of this may be for nothing. I talked to a person who was a familiar with foster child happenings and she assured me that the state comes and looks at the dwelling to make sure it is adequate for another person to live there. Also, she said that the person taking in the foster child has to have a full time job.

First, I don't think they would allow another person up there and second, she will soon be out of work so it may negate the whole thing.

Good, I think. The whole "I need money so I'll take on a foster child" thing was kind of giving me the willies.

I know... that was my first thought when she told me. Kind of sad really.

On a different note, I had a friend in high school whose family took care of foster kids. It was really sad to see little kids and babies going into convulsions from drug withdrawls. They ended up adopting 3 of the kids. It was kind of neat to watch them grow and start to recover from their already difficult beginning to life.

It was the most diverse family I knew: a chinese father, English Mother, one caucasian son (mothers son from first marriage), 3 half chinese half casucasian sons, two african american girls and one african american son. Oh and 1 grey hound, two mastiffs, one cat and a couple of fish. It was always interesting times at their house.

Update: The foster kid thing never happened (thank goodness) but things have indeed gotten worse. One of her 18 year old daughters moved in last month. Our tenant told us she would only be there for a couple of weeks until she found a place of her own. She was formerly living in Texas. This past week she had another 18 year old daughter and a 16 year old son (both from Texas) move in as well. The original 18 year old has yet to move out.

There are now 6 people living in a 2 bedroom apartment. Our costs have risen due to increased utilities (we pay water and electric in public spaces). It is getting loud.

She told us she was looking for a new place and would need to put in her 45 day notice, but she has yet to do so. I have been trying to pin her down for the notice but she keeps avoiding it which makes me think she isn't really looking.

Is there anything I can do? Our lease states that the apartment is to be occupied "only by those listed on the lease." Do I still have a right to enforce that since they are family? Does it matter if two of them are 18? What if she is not the legal guardian?

We ae not sure but we are guessing she is not the legal guardian since all three of the new comers have been living down in Texas... but we are not sure with who.

When does the lease expire?

Not untill December.

Aren't 18 year olds Legal Adults?

Six people in two bedrooms is crowded.

Have you asked her for more money to cover the increase in utilities? Six people at the present rent might be a bargain, but six people at the present rent with a utility surcharge--or threat of a utility surcharge--might inspire her to start some serious searching.

That is what I wass thinking Noddy. Is that an option even though the lease specifies the rent?

I would prefer to just have them gone. It is far from a tiny aprtment but 6 people living in there is bound to cause some damage.

jp--

I have no direct experience as a landlord, but I do have a certain amount of second hand experience. Talking to tenants can go a long way.

You say that you'd like to be compensated for the increase in utilities.

She says "That's not in the lease."

You agree, but point out that the names of the three latest arrivals aren't on the lease either and just by their nature teenagers are noisy creatures...

Ask how her apartment hunting is coming....

You aren't being threatening--you're just asserting yourself.