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Sun 17 Apr, 2005 05:26 pm
Once again, the top of the Google news page is not about America. Once again, there are no A2K threads on the issue.
The next time an American poster complains about people of other nationalities chiming in on U.S. news/news involving Americans, just remind them it's the only thing they want to talk about.
Quote:China rejects Japan's demand for apology
CBC News - 2 hours ago
BEIJING - China's foreign minister says Beijing does not have to apologize to Japan for the widespread anti-Japanese protests across the country. During a meeting with his Japanese counterpart, Li Zhaoxing ...
China refuses to apologise for wave of anti-Japan riots Times Online
Anti-Japanese protests swell in size in China Kansas City Star
Special Broadcasting Service - ABC Online - Financial Express - TVNZ - all 1,432 related ยป
Quote:BEIJING refused to apologise yesterday for violent protests in China over Japan's wartime past and its bid for a permanent seat on the UN Security Council seat.
"The Chinese Government has never done anything for which it has to apologise to the Japanese people," Li Zhaoxing, the Foreign Minister, told his visiting Japanese counterpart as China allowed new demonstrations in at least six cities.
Mr Li said that Japan, instead, was to blame for "a series of things that have hurt the feelings of the Chinese people over issues such as relations with rival Taiwan and the subject of history".
Nobutaka Machimura, the Japanese Foreign Minister, appealed to Mr Li to protect Tokyo's diplomats and citizens as his Government denounced violence on Saturday in Shanghai, where police allowed 20,000 rioters to break windows and damage restaurants and cars.
"I wish the Chinese Government would sincerely handle this matter under international regulations," Mr Machimura said, urging China to respect treaties that oblige Beijing to protect diplomatic missions.
In Shanghai, China's biggest city, police stood by as around 20,000 rioters smashed windows at the Japanese consulate, wrecked Japanese noodle restaurants and overturned nearby Nissan cars. The latest protests recalled the previous weekend's demonstrations in Beijing when windows at the embassy were smashed. Mr Machimura has demanded an apology and compensation.
"It's possible that JapanChina relations as a whole, including on the economic front, could decline to a serious state," Mr Machimura said.
While the riots have damaged Sino-Japanese relations, they have also raised a number of questions about domestic security in Beijing, which will host the Olympic Games in 2008, and in China as a whole.
These protests are more remarkable because popular dissent is not tolerated in China. Any displays of public disobedience are dealt with swiftly, especially since the pro-democracy protests in the spring of 1989, which went on for weeks before they ended in a bloody crackdown.
In Beijing, hundreds of police blanketed Tiananmen Square in the heart of the capital to block a planned demonstration. There have been strong rumours that protests took place with the tacit approval of the Government.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1573775,00.html
<oops, it's bumping back and forth between this and the election of the new Pope as the top issue>
I've been following all of these.
The Japanese and Chinese are in for a stormy year if they don't find some accomodation. I suspect that no matter how close they grow economically, they will never truly like each other.
Yes - been discussing that one a lot here - had a long conversation about it last night, since Oz has pretty much felt the same about japanese history books (not that we suffered anything like the same degree of savagery from the Japanese as the Chinese did) but been very circumspect in making our feelings known, presumably beause of trade reasons. Mind you, until my country comes fully to terms with its own past, we better be mighty careful of casting stones.
But yes - I might once have posted that news here - but not now - it is mostly like talking to oneself. Shrugs - it's an American site.
I thought that, far from apologising, the Chinese were bussing people to protests?
Damn hard on the poor Japanese folk in China...
I guess this is China flexing superpower muscles - and, dammit, they have good reason not to want the Japanese to conveniently forget history...
There is a world of hypocricy in the Chinese attitude toward "war crimes" on the part of the Japanese. I don't dispute the terrible cruelty and the slaughter inflicted by the Japanese. However, it only differed in scale and efficiency from what the warlords routinely did to their own people. I can beat my wife, but by Dog, you better not lay a finger on her . . .
Hmm - pretty common hypocrisy though, don't you think? Can't think of a country that isn't so - look at America's current treatment of POWs, vs how they react if anyone does such a thing to an American. Shrugs again.
You don't need to go back to warlords - back to mao is enough.
Frankly, on so many issues, i see the Chinese leadership as cynical and hypocritical, using every technique they can deploy to bully other nations and resist change.
...eh, who cares...
<running out>
I see it mostly in the context of China's growing pains. This country is transforming so very fast, tremendous change in the daily life of people, and the economic boom is creating new wealth but also new, gaping chasms between rich and poor, with the state on the side of (or itself implementing) sweat-shop style exploitation. All this means a hell of a lot of existential insecurity, discontent, etc. (there's lots of small-scale peasant unrest going on there now too).
At the same time, the enduring totalitarian character of the state's hold on society means that
a) the new middle classes in the boom regions are bustling with new aspirations and confidence, yet have no way to assert any kind of ambition or control when it comes to politics, government, etc
b) the poor and disposessed are increasingly restive, seeing how other people/regions are moving upward and they are left rightless - yet have no feasible way of directing their anger at the state (or face radical repression if they do anyway).
Thats a lot of energy that is easily channeled out to actions against a foreign player instead. It must feel empowering, to both those new entrepreneur classes and the discontented who are left behind, to be able and allowed to openly express their anger at someone at least, to flex their political muscle about something - if only the Japanese embassy. Could be an explosive mix, reminds you of what was it - the Boxer insurrections?
Considering all the above I can well imagine what advantage the government hoped to get from encouraging the fury a bit - but it could easily spin outside their control, so its also logical that theyre trying to clamp down on it again a bit now.
In general, I think it was a short-sighted waste that the communists repressed the Tien-a-Men-era democrats. The way those folks channeled popular ambition/discontent could have led to constructive change. Now that the democratic movement seems to be mostly dead or marginalised, that popular restiveness is going to somehow be channeled some other way eventually - and nationalism seems as likely a channel as any.
The same is going on in Russia. I read a disturbing article that I forgot to post here that posited that after Yeltsin had already failed to encourage them, Putin has now succeeded in completely marginalising the democratic opposition - yet he is bound to eventually disappoint his people himself, and then what will happen, who will be left for them to turn to when he does? It posited that Putin will in the end be forced out - and replaced by some fascistoid hyper-nationalist.
Troubling prospects all.
The Boxer rebellion lead to serious military intervention by the English, French, Germans, Americans and Japanese. That was due to the weakness and irrelevance of the state as it then existed in China. That would not happen now, so i would posit that the Chinese leadership are indeed playing with fire.
Setanta wrote: i would posit that the Chinese leadership are indeed playing with fire.
No Apology From China for Japan Protests
By JOSEPH KAHN
Published: April 18, 2005 New York Times
"Beijing has used the expressions of outrage as a platform for a more confrontational approach to Japan. Prime Minister Wen Jiabao said last week that China would block a Japanese bid to join the United Nations Security Council unless its neighbor apologized more sincerely and atoned for World War II-era abuses."
"Some analysts say the move amounts to a diplomatic power play, with Beijing leveraging its growing economic might and unsettled emotions from the war era to assert itself as Asia's leading political power."
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/18/international/asia/18china.html
Japan invaded the Chinese mainland in 1937 (that's before even I was born.) They have had no presence in China since 1945. The thugs who were organized as factions of the Communist Party by Mao Zedong have been in charge of China since 1948. In that time span Japan has renounced violence, become a respected member of the world community and has worked a true economic miracle, after having had the dubious distinction of being the only country ever to be actually nuked.
I submit that whatever issues China has with Japanese textbooks is a flgrantly obvious red herring. I doubt that the Chinese government has the least interest in what the Japanese write about their own involvement in the world of the 1930s and 1940s. What they are concerned about is Japan's bid for entry into the UN Security Council. Their current anti-Japanese stance is no more than an attempt to discredit Tokyo and -- perhaps -- to take some of the heat off North Korea. If the US is concerned about protecting its buddy Japan, or becoming an intermediary in the China-Japan dispute, it is less likely to pay much attention to Kim Jong-Il, the sociopath who exists only by China's sanction.
But I agree with you totally, ehBeth, that the story should be getting one helluva lot more play in 'Murrica than it has been. You're right -- most Yanks are happy rooting in their own backyard.
If you want some yawns, try discussing Africa.
I had read the article earlier today and had to head out. Was trying all afternoon to figure out what the Japanese history books had to do with getting China that upset after all these years. Knew there had to be something and while it may be about the UN, I'm thinking it's something more. I think they are flexing and seeing what happens. But, I'm no expert, so I'll be listening.
Hmmm - the history books have been a real issue with a number of countries for some years.
Not disputing that there are other things going on, of course.
I am interested as well, even though murrican, and certainly no expert.
For one thing, Japan issued a written apology to Korea, but not to China.
edgarblythe wrote:For one thing, Japan issued a written apology to Korea, but not to China.
Yes, but that, too, was political to a large degree. There are two Koreas and the one south of the 38th parallel is a serious economic competitor to Japan.
Human emotion does not distinguish . . .
There's another aspect to this whole China/Japan tiff that nobody -- including me -- has mentioned as yet -- Taiwan. Some Japanese government members have made statements recently which could well be interpreted as supporting Taiwan's recent rumblings about autonomy and self-determination. Japan, in China's view, has to be made to seem anti-Chinese so its pronouncements will carry less weight. And, of course, the notion that Japan might become a Security Council member in the forseeable near future is enough to give Hu palpitations.
I still say this flap has nothing whatever to do with Japanese textbooks.
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