Hey Frank - Let's have that conversation.

Is this a private conversation?

watchmakers guidedog

No, it is a monologue.
I guess.

but seriously, it's not beliefs that's to blame. It's people.

Cyr:-

No.It's fornication.

Sure, everyone can join in, I just wanted to hear Frank's point at some point. We were talking about the usage of "belief" and he asserted it was the cause of most of the world's problems, and then invited me to have a follow-up conversation about it. What are your views?


Speaking of which, how do you gain access to Private messages? I tried to send one to Frank about this, but I got some message that said something about "good standing" and an application. Does anybody know the process?

edit: Yes, spendius. Wild fornication.

Care to join? :wink:

A world without beliefs can also be a problem...

I'd say that the problem is not directly peoples beliefs. It is rather what they chose to do on the basis of their faith. In the most extreme cases people even go against their good conscience maintaining some belief.

But these are the nutcases, and I always like to sound like they're everywhere... All in all I think faith is a good thing as long as you keep it to yourself and don't let anyone use it.

Knowing nothing of the details of this debate, I side with Frank.

Depends what you define as "beliefs" and what you define as "problems".

If we define beliefs as theistic faiths then they have caused.

- Priests. A social class who offer some limited services as entertainers and therapists. In exchange for these resources were diverted from other entertainments or other social classes. Frequently the church utilised influence to ban other forms of entertainment to enforce a monopoly on the industry.

- Churchs. Pretty pieces of architectural art-work. In exchange for these resources were diverted away from other architectural projects, art work and other industries.

- Monks. A social class who spend most of their time singing or meditating. In the additional time that they have, they would sometimes work as illuminators or in a variety of art and craft fields.

- Metaphysical philosophy. Skilled thinkers spent their thought-power on issues such as "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin", diverting this resource away from scientific philosophy with more appreciable benefits.

- Crusades. A variety of wars that sapped the resources of the two involved parties.

- Witch-hunts. Seeking out and destroying people of alledgedly alternate religious beliefs in order to benefit a being of dubious existance.

- Scientific repression. Religion battles science continually, forcing scientists to divert their time away from actual issues to deal with the claims and attacks of religions.

- At least the above.

Whether you consider these "problems" or not depend largely upon your point of view. Whether you consider them worth the price paid is another issue.

Some beliefs are useful, and not much of a problem. If I didn't believe this chair would hold me I'd be quite worried right now.