5
   

The Real Origins of the Religious Right.

 
 
livinglava
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2018 10:46 am
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:

Trump: I hope I don't have to ask 'for much forgiveness'

from God.



Published June 8, 2016
Quote:
Though he remarked last year that he has never asked God for forgiveness, Donald Trump suggested in an interview published Wednesday that he plans on doing just that.

In an interview with columnist Cal Thomas, Trump was asked, "You have said you never felt the need to ask for God’s forgiveness, and yet repentance for one’s sins is a precondition to salvation. I ask you the question Jesus asked of Peter: Who do you say He is?"

"I will be asking for forgiveness, but hopefully I won’t have to be asking for much forgiveness. As you know, I am Presbyterian and Protestant. I’ve had great relationships and developed even greater relationships with ministers. We have tremendous support from the clergy. I think I will be doing very well during the election with evangelicals and with Christians," Trump said, according to the transcript."In the Middle East — and this is prior to the migration — you had almost no chance of coming into the United States. Christians from Syria, of which there were many, many of their heads … chopped off. If you were a Muslim from Syria, it was one of the easiest places to come in (to the U.S.). I thought that was deplorable."

He added, "I’m going to treat my religion, which is Christian, with great respect and care."

Thomas concluded by asking, "Who do you say Jesus is?"

"Jesus to me is somebody I can think about for security and confidence," Trump said. "Somebody I can revere in terms of bravery and in terms of courage and, because I consider the Christian religion so important, somebody I can totally rely on in my own mind."

The remarks come days before Trump is scheduled speak before the Faith & Freedom Coalition's conference on Friday in Washington.

During an appearance at the Family Leadership Summit last July, Trump said that he has never asked God for forgiveness but that he does take communion, which he described as "[w]hen I drink my little wine -- which is about the only wine I drink -- and have my little cracker, I guess that is a form of asking for forgiveness, and I do that as often as possible because I feel cleansed."

Prior to his endorsement from evangelical leader Jerry Falwell Jr. in January, Trump told CNN's Jake Tapper that he does not "like to have to ask for forgiveness. And I am good. I don't do a lot of things that are bad. I try to do nothing that is bad."

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/trump-forgiveness-god-224068

When you are asked whether you pray for forgiveness to God by people who are planning to publicize your answer for people to use it as ammunition against you politically, it is wise not to share your personal spiritual experiences in this way.

When you share spiritual experiences, it should be for the sake of reaching out to others who might benefit from a role model example, not to submit to judgment by worldly people who seek only to ridicule you and otherwise harm you for political gain.

Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2018 11:32 am
@livinglava,
Quote:
When you are asked whether you pray for forgiveness to God by people who are planning to publicize your answer for people to use it as ammunition against you politically, it is wise not to share your personal spiritual experiences in this way.

What are you talking about?

For a Christian, the simple answer to the question is yes, I have ask God for forgiveness.
If someone were to ask for specifics, then it's up to the individual to whether or not they are willing to give specific examples.
The specific examples may be something personal private between that person and God.
Whether or not you choose to give specific examples, has absolutely nothing to do with answering yes I have ask God for forgiveness.
Answering yes is one thing.
Giving specific examples is another thing.
Donald Trump refused to simply answer yes.

I am asking you, livinglava, what are you talking about?

0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2018 11:54 am
@livinglava,
Quote:
When you share spiritual experiences, it should be for the sake of reaching out to others who might benefit from a role model example, not to submit to judgment by worldly people who seek only to ridicule you and otherwise harm you for political gain.

If you are in any way suggesting that people can benefit from Donald Trump as being a spiritual role model, you livinglava, have lost all credibility and I cannot take anything you say as being serious.
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2018 12:00 pm
@livinglava,
Frank Luntz asked Donald Trump "have you ever asked God for forgiveness?"
at The FAMiLY Leadership Summit on 7/18/15 at Stephens Auditorium in Ames, IA.

Donald Trump: "I haven't asked God for forgiveness "

0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2018 03:30 pm
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:

Quote:
When you share spiritual experiences, it should be for the sake of reaching out to others who might benefit from a role model example, not to submit to judgment by worldly people who seek only to ridicule you and otherwise harm you for political gain.

If you are in any way suggesting that people can benefit from Donald Trump as being a spiritual role model, you livinglava, have lost all credibility and I cannot take anything you say as being serious.

I'm not saying anything like that. What I'm saying is that you have people who are only looking to ridicule and condemn Trump. They are not looking to him as a role model, so there's no point in him giving spiritual advice.

It's like asking a reformed alcoholic to be a role model for resisting alcoholism while everyone is just looking for a public confession so they can condemn him for his alcoholism. Spiritual leadership doesn't work when the people following you are out to get you.
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2018 05:12 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
What I'm saying is that you have people who are only looking to ridicule and condemn Trump.

As everyone should, considering that Trump has demonstrated that Trump truly is a bad person. Not only has Trump continues to show himself to truly be bad person, but he is actually proud of that fact.


Quote:
What I'm saying is that you have people who are only looking to ridicule and condemn Trump.

Wouldn't you livinglava expect people to ridicule and condemn Trump when Trump constantly does and say things that warrants such ridicule and condemnation?
livinglava
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2018 09:43 pm
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:

Quote:
What I'm saying is that you have people who are only looking to ridicule and condemn Trump.

As everyone should, considering that Trump has demonstrated that Trump truly is a bad person. Not only has Trump continues to show himself to truly be bad person, but he is actually proud of that fact.


Quote:
What I'm saying is that you have people who are only looking to ridicule and condemn Trump.

Wouldn't you livinglava expect people to ridicule and condemn Trump when Trump constantly does and say things that warrants such ridicule and condemnation?

1) You don't understand the Christian view of condemnation and forgiveness.

2) You don't understand what it's like to see through the liberally-biased media and see how they spin everything in a way that twists the meaning and then listen to people who are brainwashed by it make arguments based on the false understandings they've derived from the brainwashing.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2018 10:43 pm
As does much of public discourse in the age of 45, this attempt to in any way connect Trump and principles of spirituality beggars credulity.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2018 10:44 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
1) You don't understand the Christian view of condemnation and forgiveness.

Christianity is all about forgiveness. Christianity doesn't involve making excuses for all of Donald Trump's bad deeds.


Quote:
2) You don't understand what it's like to see through the liberally-biased media and see how they spin everything in a way that twists the meaning and then listen to people who are brainwashed by it make arguments based on the false understandings they've derived from the brainwashing.
Don't blame the liberal media for Donald Trump's never ending bad behavior. Donald Trump is a bad person who constantly do and say bad things. That's not the liberal media's fault. I will argue that the right-wing biased media is spinning and brainwashing it's viewers and listeners to see Trump in a more favorable or positive light. If you wish to continue making excuses for Trump, that is your right.

Regarding your reference to false understanding, that is extremely funny. Proving that Trump is a bad person is not debatable. He really truly is a bad person. Proving that Trump is a pathological habitual liar is not debatable. Trump really truly is a pathological habitual liar. There is way too much evidence to support that fact. Just because the right-wing Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Glen Beck, and Rush Limbaugh, have misled and brainwashed their viewers and listeners doesn't change that fact.
livinglava
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 09:23 am
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:

Christianity is all about forgiveness. Christianity doesn't involve making excuses for all of Donald Trump's bad deeds.

I don't make excuses for Trump. I blame his critics/attackers for translating their bad morality into an anti-Trump campaign instead of working toward more positive ends.

They seek to control government by ridiculing and witch-hunting their enemies out of positions of power instead of engaging in constructive multi-faith, multi-party discussion.

Quote:
Don't blame the liberal media for Donald Trump's never ending bad behavior. Donald Trump is a bad person who constantly do and say bad things. That's not the liberal media's fault. I will argue that the right-wing biased media is spinning and brainwashing it's viewers and listeners to see Trump in a more favorable or positive light. If you wish to continue making excuses for Trump, that is your right.

I blame them (and you here) for constantly shifting the spotlight back to Trump and presidents in general. It is a cult of the fuhrer, whether for or against the figurehead in charge.

Stop promoting the fiction of top-down power in the way you construe government and society.

Quote:
Regarding your reference to false understanding, that is extremely funny. Proving that Trump is a bad person is not debatable. He really truly is a bad person. Proving that Trump is a pathological habitual liar is not debatable. Trump really truly is a pathological habitual liar. There is way too much evidence to support that fact. Just because the right-wing Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Glen Beck, and Rush Limbaugh, have misled and brainwashed their viewers and listeners doesn't change that fact.

You focusing on Trump in this way proves you're a bad person, although I know for a fact you are capable of good, just as Trump and every other human individual is.
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 08:52 pm
@livinglava,
I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 09:45 pm
Moral Lens of Justice.
Rev. Barber's most compelling 7 minutes to date.

Published Jan 21, 2014
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  4  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2018 04:50 am
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:

You focusing on Trump in this way proves you're a bad person, although I know for a fact you are capable of good, just as Trump and every other human individual is.


So, if we call attention to this man...
Who has defrauded and cheated hundreds of business partners;
Been sued for and had to pay millions of dollars for fraud;
Who cheats on his pregnant wife;
Who may have swindled his way into the presidency through fraud and treasonous fraternization with enemies of the state;
Who lies daily, constantly - shamelessly;

Who makes friends with horrible, murderous despots;
Who utters ignorant racist decisive words regularly;
Who is profane, disloyal and disrespectful according to anyone outside his family he has disagreed with;

THIS makes US bad people?

You and Trump deserve each other.
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2018 11:03 am
@snood,
AGREED
AGREED
AGREED
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2018 12:25 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

So, if we call attention to this man...
Who has defrauded and cheated hundreds of business partners;
Been sued for and had to pay millions of dollars for fraud;
Who cheats on his pregnant wife;
Who may have swindled his way into the presidency through fraud and treasonous fraternization with enemies of the state;
Who lies daily, constantly - shamelessly;

Who makes friends with horrible, murderous despots;
Who utters ignorant racist decisive words regularly;
Who is profane, disloyal and disrespectful according to anyone outside his family he has disagreed with;

THIS makes US bad people?

You and Trump deserve each other.

No, what makes the democrats so bad is that they covertly support global socialism and use character attacks to ridicule/destroy anyone who doesn't tow their line.

It is not a democratic approach to economic governance. They don't want to allow democracy to interfere with growth and their ability to tap that growth for maximum redistribution.

So instead of engaging in open discourse about politics and government, they organize all their communications tactically and abuse democracy as a tool for achieving authoritarian economic control.

The war on Trump is just part of that overall strategy to subvert democracy and freedom in pursuit of global socialist economics, which require free trade and borders that are permeable to the flows of certain valuable commodities, legal and illegal.

The transnational flows of goods and capital are how global socialism is effectuated. Human trafficking and legal abortion, as well as recreational drugs, are how the lucrative sex and drug industry is maintained as a global system to redistribute money.

I am against racism, nationalism, border control, etc. but global socialism is using crime, racism, nationalism, permeable borders, etc. to achieve financial/economic goals that contradict the deeper human interests of egalitarianism and liberty.

This is why there is a war on Trump; not because of any of the character problems you associate with him. Everyone has character flaws. When the person is supporting certain economic interests, those flaws are ignored or whitewashed to keep them in power working for the greedy. When they obstruct those interests, they are subject to character attacks to attempt to remove them as an obstacle to pursuing those other interests.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2018 12:54 pm
LL rants about socialism and fascism, and a host of other things about which she is clearly clueless. In the end, though, all she does is puke up the current party line from the far right.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2018 01:09 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
No, what makes the democrats so bad is that they covertly support global socialism and use character attacks to ridicule/destroy anyone who doesn't tow their line.

It is not a democratic approach to economic governance. They don't want to allow democracy to interfere with growth and their ability to tap that growth for maximum redistribution.

So instead of engaging in open discourse about politics and government, they organize all their communications tactically and abuse democracy as a tool for achieving authoritarian economic control.

The war on Trump is just part of that overall strategy to subvert democracy and freedom in pursuit of global socialist economics, which require free trade and borders that are permeable to the flows of certain valuable commodities, legal and illegal.

The transnational flows of goods and capital are how global socialism is effectuated. Human trafficking and legal abortion, as well as recreational drugs, are how the lucrative sex and drug industry is maintained as a global system to redistribute money.

I am against racism, nationalism, border control, etc. but global socialism is using crime, racism, nationalism, permeable borders, etc. to achieve financial/economic goals that contradict the deeper human interests of egalitarianism and liberty.

This is why there is a war on Trump; not because of any of the character problems you associate with him. Everyone has character flaws. When the person is supporting certain economic interests, those flaws are ignored or whitewashed to keep them in power working for the greedy. When they obstruct those interests, they are subject to character attacks to attempt to remove them as an obstacle to pursuing those other interests.


John Oliver discusses the growing number of authoritarian leaders around the world, their common characteristics,
and whether or not one of them is currently our president.

Published Nov 18, 2018
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2018 09:08 pm
Quote:
Whoever oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.
— Proverbs 14:31

Quote:
Whoever is kind to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will reward them for what they have done.
— Proverbs 19:17

Quote:
The generous will themselves be blessed, for they share their food with the poor.
— Proverbs 22:9

Quote:
Those who give to the poor will lack nothing, but those who close their eyes to them receive many curses.
— Proverbs 28:27

0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2018 09:30 pm
Where Are the Christians Now? | Rev. Dr. William J. Barber, II

May 7th, 2013 - In an address at Martin Street Baptist Church in Raleigh,
Rev. Dr. William J. Barber, II asks his fellow Christians, in the light of the regressive legislation
pouring out of the North Carolina General Assembly, "Where are you now?"

0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2018 05:49 pm
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:
John Oliver discusses the growing number of authoritarian leaders around the world, their common characteristics, and whether or not one of them is currently our president.

The minion mentality is what creates authoritarian leadership and not the other way around. Where people choose responsible self-governance, how could authoritarian leadership win? Irresponsible and authority-oriented popular culture is the breeding ground for authoritarianism.
 

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