Why do people still believe in polygraphs?

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Polygraphs, a magic device can tell when someone is lying, have been debunked by science and rejected by courts. They have been shown to let liars be believed and have ruined the lives of innocent people. You can teach people to fix the results as has been shown multiple times

Yet they are still used in industry and in the court of public opinion.

In the 21st century... an age of science... we still rely on magic.

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@maxdancona,

It's true that sociopaths can beat a polygraph, but in the hands of a skilled operator polygraphs have some value, because they measure the physiological responses in the subject. I think to be more accurate a series of polygraph tests should be run on the individual.

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@coluber2001,

Quote:

but in the hands of a skilled operator polygraphs have some value, because they measure the physiological responses in the subject

But they don't. There is no scientific value to polygraphs. They are superstition.

They work as psychological bullying tools... if the subject (i.e. victim) believes that the polygraph works, the questioner can use that to his or her advantage. It is a way of exerting psychological pressure on a subject.

But that doesn't have any more value of getting the truth than torture does.

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@maxdancona,

As an addition, they will never prove an innocent person to be innocent.

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@maxdancona,

Why? Same reason people believe in weather reporters and God. Something to do with faith.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Why do people still believe in polygraphs?

Authority and tradition. The FBI and the Pentagon use polygraphs, so who do hicks like you think you are, suggesting you know better than they what thet are? That's the appeal to authority.

It is amplified by an argumeny from tradition: All tshese institutions have been using this for a century, and now you geniuses are telling us they had it wrong all this time? Inconceiveable!

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Polygraphs, a magic device can tell when someone is lying, have been debunked by science and rejected by courts. They have been shown to let liars be believed and have ruined the lives of innocent people. You can teach people to fix the results as has been shown multiple times

Yet they are still used in industry and in the court of public opinion.

In the 21st century... an age of science... we still rely on magic.

LOL as a polygraph test back up Ms. Ford claims that she underwent an attempted rape by Kavanaugh in the 80s all good members of the grand old party need to attack polygraph testing.

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@BillRM,

Whether you believe that polygraphs are valid or not should not have anything to do with your political ideology. And whether you accept a line of reasoning as valid or not should have nothing to do with the party of the person making it.

Critical thinking means being able to identify times when your own side is wrong. There is no reason that you can't believe Dr. Ford and still dispute the validity of the polygraph. The first is an opinion, we have know real way of knowing.

The lack of validity of the polygraph is a well documented fact.

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@BillRM,

I am not a Republican, and I have concluded at least 20 years ago that polygraphs are not lie detectors. As you may remember, he name"polygraph" is composed of the Greek words for "many" and "drawing". And that's literally all it is: a device that draws many lines. The belief that it can do anything more impressive than that comes ftom just another (implicit) argument from authority: it has a Greek name, therefore its verdict must be valid.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Whether you believe that polygraphs are valid or not should not have anything to do with your political ideology. And whether you accept a line of reasoning as valid or not should have nothing to do with the party of the person making it.

Critical thinking means being able to identify times when your own side is wrong. There is no reason that you can't believe Dr. Ford and still dispute the validity of the polygraph. The first is an opinion, we have know real way of knowing.

The lack of validity of the polygraph is a well documented fact.

LOL if a lie detector test had backed up not Ford but instead our new Supreme court member instead of Ford there is no question in my mind that the Trumpians would be declaring how reliable such testing happen to be.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

LOL if a lie detector test had backed up not Ford but instead our new Supreme court member instead of Ford there is no question in my mind that the Trumpians would be declaring how reliable such testing happen to be.

In that, I'm sure you are right, but you know better than to confuse technology with politics.

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@BillRM,

I believe in your psychic ability even less then I believe in polygraphs. You are incorrect. I was against polygraphs long before this sorry mess.

I was neither pro-Kavanaugh or anti-Kavanaugh. I am pretty disgusted by both sides right now.

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@maxdancona,

I don't know but they use it all the time on daytime TV "talk shows" to determine if Betty's husband cheated on her half-sister's second cousin. And to see who is Betty's baby's daddy.

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@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

I don't know but they use it all the time on daytime TV "talk shows" to determine if Betty's husband cheated on her half-sister's second cousin. And to see who is Betty's baby's daddy.

Did anyone see the Penn and Teller show on Polygraphs? Their show is called "Bullshit!" (which explains the theme) and each week they would debunk a different part of popular culture in a humorous way.

In the Polygraph show, they chronicle the story of a man, whose girlfriend hired a store front polygraph operator to see if her man was faithful... let's just say that during the course of the show he destroys their relationship. They also talk to a former police officer who administered polygraphs, and a government employee who was fired based on a failed polygraph.

It is worth watching (if you like this kind of thing)... Penn and Teller are a special taste.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

It is worth watching (if you like this kind of thing)... Penn and Teller are a special taste.

Agree on both counts. I like them though. Here's a link to the episode for those who are interested.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6p90zy

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

I was neither pro-Kavanaugh or anti-Kavanaugh.

That seems pretty wishy washy. Even without the Blasey-Ford allegations the pro-business, anti-environment judge seemed pretty far to the right. Any moderate could find his views objectionable and oppose his nomination. What kind of justices do you want on the Supreme Court?

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@hightor,

hightor wrote:

Quote:
I was neither pro-Kavanaugh or anti-Kavanaugh.

That seems pretty wishy washy.

As it happens, I agree. But how does this bear on the question of polygraphs being lie detectors vs being bullshit? How does it bear on the phenomenon of usually-fact-based reporters construing it as a sign of Blasey-Ford's trustworthiness that she took a polygraph test and of Kavanaugh's untrustworthiness that he did not?

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@Thomas,

If someone is willing to take the test and is not particularly sophisticated with regard to how polygraphs work, their willingness indicates a certain sense of confidence that they can tell the truth and not be contradicted by analysis of the machine's results. It doesn't prove anything other than the subject's confidence.

Dr. Ford's credibility was accepted by many people on the basis of her presentation. I think that her polygraph results were secondary — they don't establish her truthfulness but they don't raise questions about it either.

Someone like Kavanaugh, who may be more knowledgeable about polygraphs, may simply believe that the test represents a risk not worth taking. It doesn't prove anything other than his distrust of polygraph results.

I think that when reporters mention her results and Kavanaugh's refusal they are simply adding a few incidental facts to a case which is strikingly devoid of real evidence.

Polygraph tests remind me a bit of dowsing. The devices used and the thinking behind them may be bullshit but the results occasionally conform to reality. And every time a dowser finds water people's belief in the practice is sustained.

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@hightor,

Quote:

... is not particularly sophisticated with regard to how polygraphs work

Really Hightor! A PhD. in Pscyhology is "not sophicated" with how polygraphs work. Your narrative is so obsessed with her being a helpless victim that you seem to overlook that she is has a Doctorate in Psychology. She is literally an expert on human behavior.

I don't know if you missed this, but there are reports that she coached other people on how to take polygraphs. A doctor in Psychology certainly understands how people act when they are telling the truth. If I were training to pass a polygraph, I would look for a Doctor in Psychology.

Polygraphs are bogus pseudoscience anyway. But your insistence in arguing that Dr. Ford is "not particularly sophisticated..." is ridiculous.

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@hightor,

hightor wrote:

It doesn't prove anything other than the subject's confidence.

Assuming gullibility, of course. But what gave you the idea that Professor Blasey Ford, who teaches psychology at a reputable university , would be "not particularly sophisticated with regard to how polygraphs work"?

hightor wrote:

It doesn't prove anything other than his distrust of polygraph results.

His scientifically justified distrust, that is.

hightor wrote:

I think that when reporters mention her results and Kavanaugh's refusal they are simply adding a few incidental facts to a case which is strikingly devoid of real evidence.

Oh, you really think they're not suggesting anything by it?

hightor wrote:

Polygraph tests remind me a bit of dowsing.

Good comparison. Which makes it all the more incomprehensible how often I've heard American journalists dropping the polygraph stuff into their reporting. The European papers I read, many of whom were fiercely critical of Kavanaugh, completely ignored it.

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