1
   

Have atheists redefined science to get rid of God?

 
 
booman2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2005 05:07 pm
Okay...okay....I see what this..Y'all just waiting for the Boo, to come along And settle this thing Right? Cool Ho-hum...Just check the signature line Grasshoppers...... (who me fulla' myself? Shocked )
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 05:55 am
I once made a post around here concerning the relationship of God and science.

Science in order to be good science must ignore the existence of God. It doesn't matter if He exists or if He doesn't, for science to be good science it must ignore His existence. It cannot refute His existence, for there isn't sufficient evidence to refute Him. It cannot prove His existence, because likewise, there isn't sufficient evidence to prove His existence.

God must be kept away from science so as to prevent what I call "lazy logic."

Lazy logic is in essence, "I can't understand it, I can't find a way to prove how it works, so therefore it must be God's doing, end of story."

If Newton had applied that logic to what happened when the apple fell on his head, we wouldn't have his Laws of Gravity. If current molecular biologists applied it to their research, Cancer Research would not advance.

True, not all scientists who believe in God will fall for lazy logic, but to ignore His existence and to keep Him out of science is to avoid that trap altogether.

Quote:
Well natural selection is a fact. Whether that is where we came from is the question. Remember, if we are a product of random chance, our thoughts our the product of random chance too.


We are not entirely the product of random chance. In reality, random chance doesn't actually exist as fully random chance.

Natural selection means that most random chances are actually eliminated in a very efficient manner that is non-random, hence the selection process of these random chances is non-random.

Furthermore our thoughts are not the product of random choice, because electrical signals do not travel randomly through the brain and in reality, travel along set neurones going to set and defined areas. If our thoughts were the product of random chance, then in all probability, the non-random process of natural selection would have remoevd us along with all the other bad random chances.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 01:47 pm
Lazy logic, heh. I like that! Wink
0 Replies
 
booman2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 08:05 pm
However, lazy faith, would be redundant
0 Replies
 
extra medium
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 08:38 pm
Re: Have atheists redefined science to get rid of God?
thunder_runner32 wrote:
I think that many atheists have tried to redefine science, to try and prove there is no god. They say that they only believe in what they can feel and test, but if there is a god, how will they ever know?


Lets see, you're saying that atheists have a conspiracy going to define science in such a way that they can prove there is no god?

Are you saying that a certain religion knows the "true" definition of science, then? Which religion would this be that knows the "real" defintion of science?

If you are right and the atheists have a massive conspiracy going to redefine the meaning of science, this woud be pretty big.

Do you know when this all started?

Do you have any proof of all this?

What does your religion say is the "real" definition of science?
0 Replies
 
thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 10:44 am
I just think that in the search for truth, it's hard to decide wether to include or exclude God in the interpretation of evidence. I'm sure they yield different results, so I'm not sure. I wonder if religion and science can ever coincide completely?
0 Replies
 
thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 10:44 am
I just think that in the search for truth, it's hard to decide wether to include or exclude God in the interpretation of evidence. I'm sure they yield different results, so I'm not sure. I wonder if religion and science can ever coincide completely?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 10:49 am
Science operates without reference to god. It neither denies nor confirms the existence of a deity. It is the latter circumstance which infurtiates the religiously fanatical, and gives rise to the paranoia and conspiracy theories.
0 Replies
 
thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 11:01 am
How can scientists get any true answers about our past, if they don't even know wether to include God?
0 Replies
 
gospelmancan2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 11:02 am
Setanta wrote:
Science operates without reference to god. It neither denies nor confirms the existence of a deity. It is the latter circumstance which infurtiates the religiously fanatical, and gives rise to the paranoia and conspiracy theories.
Science is only measurement and conclusions based on those measurements. If science cannot deny or confirm the existence of God, why do so many atheistic people ask for scientific proof of
God and then claim it's absence as proof that God does not exist?
0 Replies
 
gospelmancan2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 11:10 am
What color is the sky in Pinker's world? Maybe.... green and white stripes.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 11:12 am
Atheist simply means one without god. Those who bill themselves as atheist, while railing against the concept of a deity, and seeking proofs of the "non-existence" of a deity are no different than the religionists in their unthinking devotion to a dogma--and to that extent, are not atheist: their superstitious beliefs in regard to science constitute their god.

Science is not responsible for the attempt of fanatical people to bend its alleged conclusions to their dogmatic purposes. Attempts by anyone--whether of a religious fanaticism, or an anti-religious fanaticism--to "redefine" science for the purposes of their agenda are meaningless. Science is a method of investigation, and as such, it is not subject to "redefinition." Methodology stands or falls upon its usefulness as a tool of understanding.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 11:20 am
gospelmancan2 wrote:
Setanta wrote:
Science operates without reference to god. It neither denies nor confirms the existence of a deity. It is the latter circumstance which infurtiates the religiously fanatical, and gives rise to the paranoia and conspiracy theories.
Science is only measurement and conclusions based on those measurements. If science cannot deny or confirm the existence of God, why do so many atheistic people ask for scientific proof of
God and then claim it's absence as proof that God does not exist?


That is logic not science. Logic says anyone that claims something exists must prove it. If unproven then it must be assumed to not be true. You can make a logical argument that God doesn't exist but not a scientific one.

Science is different in that it postulates then attempts to prove or disprove. All science must be repeatable. In science, you don't assume something is false just because it can't be proved. That would defeat the purpose of science.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 11:26 am
gospelmancan2 wrote:
Setanta wrote:
Science operates without reference to god. It neither denies nor confirms the existence of a deity. It is the latter circumstance which infurtiates the religiously fanatical, and gives rise to the paranoia and conspiracy theories.
Science is only measurement and conclusions based on those measurements. If science cannot deny or confirm the existence of God, why do so many atheistic people ask for scientific proof of
God and then claim it's absence as proof that God does not exist?


Well, science cannot deny or confirm the existence of God, because the definition is not set in stone.

Science likewise cannot really, truly prove or disprove the existence of the other gods out there and can only prove that they don't exist where the ancients thought they used to.

Setanta wrote:
Atheist simply means one without god. Those who bill themselves as atheist, while railing against the concept of a deity, and seeking proofs of the "non-existence" of a deity are no different than the religionists in their unthinking devotion to a dogma--and to that extent, are not atheist: their superstitious beliefs in regard to science constitute their god.


Now, now, atheists are atheists for their non-belief in a God. They may not be anti-religious and quite "religious" in their unthinking devotion to their dogma, but that does not mean they are not atheists, more that they are more "religious" than they think they are.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 11:30 am
thunder_runner32 wrote:
How can scientists get any true answers about our past, if they don't even know wether to include God?


The only way to get a TRUE scentific answer is to only look at the KNOWN FACTS. Since you can't objectively measure for God you can't include him in any science.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 12:19 pm
Quote, "Science is different in that it postulates then attempts to prove or disprove. All science must be repeatable. In science, you don't assume something is false just because it can't be proved. That would defeat the purpose of science."

Well stated; "You don't assume something is false just because it can't be proved."
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 12:23 pm
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
Now, now, atheists are atheists for their non-belief in a God. They may not be anti-religious and quite "religious" in their unthinking devotion to their dogma, but that does not mean they are not atheists, more that they are more "religious" than they think they are.


And i contend that you are wrong. Science, as they imperfectly understand it, is their god.
0 Replies
 
extra medium
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 12:54 pm
The thing I don't understand about all this:

Science does not attempt to prove there is no god. This is a good thing too, because Science would probably fail at this.

Science may bother some fundamentalists because it "proves" that the earth is much more than 8,000 years old (some Old Testament scholars claim this would be the approximate age of the earth according to OT).

When science goes around disproving some things in the OT, this freaks out some fundamentalists.

More enlightened religious people don't have a problem with integrating religion & science.

Notably, some of the most famous scientists of all time have been quite religous.

Einstein & Isaac Newton believed in God.

Science doesn't try to disprove existence of God. It can't. But Science does disprove a lot of hogwash that has been written in copies of copies of copies of corrupted scriptures.

Why is that a problem to anyone except fanatical fundamentalists?
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 12:55 pm
Setanta wrote:
And i contend that you are wrong. Science, as they imperfectly understand it, is their god.


By definition, science cannot be a God.

Quote:
God
1 a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
5. A very handsome man.
6. powerful ruler or despot.

Source: http://www.answers.com/God
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 12:57 pm
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
By definition, science cannot be a God.


Tell that to professional atheists, i don't dispute it personally . . .
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

How can we be sure? - Discussion by Raishu-tensho
Proof of nonexistence of free will - Discussion by litewave
Destroy My Belief System, Please! - Discussion by Thomas
Star Wars in Philosophy. - Discussion by Logicus
Existence of Everything. - Discussion by Logicus
Is it better to be feared or loved? - Discussion by Black King
Paradigm shifts - Question by Cyracuz
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 7.81 seconds on 12/23/2024 at 02:18:43