When you die, you are just dead...

My proof goes like this. You walk into a Home Depot store, and you walk over to the section where they sell propane barbeque grills. You know, these things:



Right? Look around, and see if you can find one which operates itself with no human intervention at all. There aren't any, right? I mean, there aren't any which go out and find their own food, prepare it and cook it when the urge comes over them; they ALL require that a human put food on them, and then operate the controls to cook it, right? That at least implies the existence of people, right? I mean, who would make such a thing if there were no people to use it, right? Good, so far.

Similarly, since it is inconceivably that evolutionists and atheists should not burn in hell <explain this leap for me?>and since hell like the propane grill could not operate itself of its own volition, the devil has to exist to operate the thing, right? You know, the grand imperial master of atheists and evolutionists? And since the devil would create total evil in our world if operating in the absence of God and since the world is not totally, 100% evil and f**ked up, therefore also God has to exist, QED.

I don't think many people need an afterlife to live morally. It's a matter of right and wrong and besides even with the knowledge that "I" would cease to exist, I could think of it as something that strengthen my sense of morality seeing that everyone matters, and not me alone, since I have no greater importance than anyone else.

Without going into all the levels of morality here, I'd like to point out that you are showing a lot of faith in your fellow humans. I'd like to think that you are right.

On the other hand, a moral life can often be rewarded in tangible, immediate ways. So, maybe pleasure-pain still applies.

Ultimately, I was curious to see the connection (if any) between religion and a reliance on outside stimuli to bring about moral action. In simpler terms,"Does religion remove the need to be moral for the sake of morality alone?" And, "How many of those people who act morally for the sake of religion would still act morally if there was no judgement.

I think the answer is actually much more complex than this. You can find examples of hindu, jewish, muslim, or christian believers that rely on pleasure-pain (or punishment-reward) to direct them to act morally. You can also find examples of believers who feel that they act morally for the sake of the moral action. This has been called the low road vs. the high road of religious morality.

Another aspect of the high road is a tendency to look at intent rather than action. But, that may be a discussion for another thread.

Similarly, since it is inconceivably that evolutionists and atheists should not burn in hell and since hell like the propane grill could not operate itself of its own volition, the devil has to exist to operate the thing, right? You know, the grand imperial master of atheists and evolutionists? And since the devil would create total evil in our world if operating in the absence of God and since the world is not totally, 100% evil and f**ked up, therefore also God has to exist, QED.