Has the Schiavo case Become a Political Football?

ehBeth wrote:

I'm curious why people think the courts have ruled the way they have in this case. The rulings have been consistent - time and time again. Were the judges at the various levels all wrong/corrupt/stupid/whatever?

Are American judges truly held in such disrespect?

We're just asking to see some of the evidence.

Okay, Michael says his wife expressed her wish not to live that way. Apparently although the courts are satisfied, many aren't and the tact is it's just Michaels word and he's lying.

I thought our entire American justice system was built on the premise of innocent until proven guilty, but it seems in this case if there's the slightest doubt, that Michael is now guilty of being a liar. This sounds dangerously like turning the judicial concept 180 degrees.

Slippery slope IMO.

I will accept the idea that Michael's brother and sister heard her say it too, if you provide a citation. And by the way, should you be able to do so, I will apologize for the great wrong of losing a debating point, right after you apologize for any of the last few times you have lost a debating point to someone. Now, if I can just have that citation.......

Brandon9000 wrote:

ehBeth wrote:

I'm curious why people think the courts have ruled the way they have in this case. The rulings have been consistent - time and time again. Were the judges at the various levels all wrong/corrupt/stupid/whatever?

Are American judges truly held in such disrespect?

We're just asking to see some of the evidence.

Brandon, this thread moves fast so maybe you missed the link BBB posted about two pages back.

blueveinedthrobber wrote:

Okay, Michael says his wife expressed her wish not to live that way. Apparently although the courts are satisfied, many aren't and the tact is it's just Michaels word and he's lying.

I thought our entire American justice system was built on the premise of innocent until proven guilty, but it seems in this case if there's the slightest doubt, that Michael is now guilty of being a liar. This sounds dangerously like turning the judicial concept 180 degrees.

Slippery slope IMO.

I think many are calling into question his motives, while pointing out the potential conflicts of interest. For instance: (1) Michael only expressed Terri's desires after he won a civil suit where he argued he needed lots of money to pay for prolonged medical care and treatment; (2) Terri's continued care and treatment costs more money than letting her die, and financial resources are depleting; (3) Michael has a new paramour, so he might not be considering the best interests of Terri. So if there's a doubt, err on the side of those without these conflicts of interest. Continuing Michael in the role of guardian is questionable given these apparent conflicts of interest.

Terri has no written directive on the matter, Greer ruled it was her wish, based on testimony from Michael Schiavo, his brother and sister-in-law that Terri had casually told them she would not want to be kept alive by artificial means.

Brandon wrote:

Quote:

I will accept the idea that Michael's brother and sister heard her say it too, if you provide a citation. And by the way, should you be able to do so, I will apologize for the great wrong of losing a debating point, right after you apologize for any of the last few times you have lost a debating point to someone. Now, if I can just have that citation.......

Translation: I am too much of a child to use google which has 145 hits when you put in "'If I ever go like that, just let me go"

If you still need help Brandon I can post all 145 citations.

Oh.. by the way.. feel free to point out when I lost a debating point by calling people "liars" or refusing to accept facts as facts. You might want to keep your dolls small enough that you don't have to try stuffing them with straw.

Brandon wrote:

Quote:

I will accept the idea that Michael's brother and sister heard her say it too, if you provide a citation. And by the way, should you be able to do so, I will apologize for the great wrong of losing a debating point, right after you apologize for any of the last few times you have lost a debating point to someone. Now, if I can just have that citation.......

Translation: I am too much of a child to use google which has 145 hits when you put in "'If I ever go like that, just let me go"

If you still need help Brandon I can post all 145 citations.

I will say at this point, I am not a reinsert the tube person...

But, as a matter of law, I have not heard the clear and compelling evidence that proves she didn't want to live in this condition. In the absence of clear and compelling evidence, I think a person should be allowed to live, especially if loved ones plead to care for her.

And, Freeduck. Obviously, I referred to a party that had nothing to gain, and no emoional investment, who had been told by her what her wishes were. Maybe she called an office to inquire about Living Wills...maybe during a previous hospitalization, she dicussed her desires with a hospital employee, maybe she was in a discussion about euthanasia at school...

Those people, I would trust.

But, as a matter of law, I have not heard the clear and compelling evidence that proves she didn't want to live in this condition. In the absence of clear and compelling evidence, I think a person should be allowed to live, especially if loved ones plead to care for her.

But, as a matter of law, I have not heard the clear and compelling evidence that proves she didn't want to live in this condition.

parados wrote:

Brandon wrote:

Quote:

I will accept the idea that Michael's brother and sister heard her say it too, if you provide a citation. And by the way, should you be able to do so, I will apologize for the great wrong of losing a debating point, right after you apologize for any of the last few times you have lost a debating point to someone. Now, if I can just have that citation.......

Translation: I am too much of a child to use google which has 145 hits when you put in "'If I ever go like that, just let me go"

If you still need help Brandon I can post all 145 citations.

I'll throw him a bone (you can reduce it to 132 by including "Schiavo").

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22%27If+I+ever+go+like+that%2C+just+let+me+go%22+schiavo


In court, family members on both sides recounted what Terri said she wanted.

...Then came Scott Schiavo, his brother, who recounted Mrs. Schiavo's words at the luncheon in Pennsylvania after her husband's grandmother died. [What words? Unclear in this article.]

Joan Schiavo, the wife of Michael Schiavo's oldest brother, William Schiavo, was next to take the stand.

Joan and Terri Schiavo had become close friends in the mid 1980s. Joan Schiavo said she told her sister-in-law about a friend who was forced to end life support to an infant after health problems.

Terri Schiavo told her that she would have done the same thing for the baby if its life could not otherwise be saved, Joan Schiavo testified.

Joan Schiavo also heard other comments after she and Mrs. Schiavo saw a movie about someone who had an accident and was in a coma.

"We had stated that if that ever happened to one of us, in our lifetime, we would not want to go through that. That we would want it stated in our will we would want the tubes and everything taken out...


...Her mother, Mary Schindler, said she discussed with her daughter the famous right-to-die case of Karen Ann Quinlan, back when the legal fight to take Quinlan off a ventilator was front-page news.

"If they take her off, she might die. Just leave her alone and she will die whenever," she said her daughter told her.

Felos introduced newspaper stories showing that the Quinlan case was front-page news when Terri Schiavo was 11 or 12 years old.

Mrs. Schiavo's former friend, Diane Meyer, recalled watching a movie about Quinlan in the summer of 1982 after they graduated high school.

"I remember one of the things she said is, "How did they know she would want this? How did they know she wouldn't want to go on?"' Meyer testified.

I expect each of you to blindly buy all future court decisions. Which, hey, that's how you get your political information....shouldn't be surprised.

Amen.

Again, there were multiple decisions handed down in this case. Add to that that very few people polled actually would want to be alive in such a state, and there's just not much to argue.

I expect each of you to blindly buy all future court decisions.