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Has the Schiavo case Become a Political Football?

 
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 07:34 pm
and that will prove "erring on the side of pain medication just in case and nothing more".
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 07:35 pm
Any change in the laws will be for future requirements; the Terri Schiavo case is past. Your attempt to go backwards on the Terri case is a non-issue. You are in essence, beating on a dead horse. It would be more merciful for the family (not for Terri; she's already gone) if the doctors were permitted to insert an overdose of morphine.
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 07:38 pm
Did I mention a change in any law?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 07:43 pm
A poll means nothing asking such a "stupid" quesiton, because it doesn't apply. The "legal guardian" is Michael, and all the courts supports it.
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 07:45 pm
I don't think the questions referring to a "coma" were relevant to Terri Schiavo's case, either.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 07:46 pm
Playing "what if" after all the courts have supported Michael as the legal guardian has no place in any polls.
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Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 07:54 pm
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
Baldimo wrote:
Why haven't the feminists weighed in on this issue? I'm surprised that NOW hasn't been at the hospital doing their own little protest. Imagine a husband being able to end the life of his wife. It should have been a hot button issue from them. So far I haven't heard a word from them.


Do they usually call you? Wow.


Do you always deflect a serious question with lame humor?

You have to realize, I agree with the husband in what he is doing. If she did say this to him then how would the parents know? When a husband and wife are lying in bed having a conversation I know my parents or in-laws are not there to hear every word said in a private conversation during private moments.

I was only asking about groups like NOW because they are so strong for women's rights except for Terry or Nichole Brown Simpson. They didn't support her after she was killed. Instead they supported OJ instead of a battered woman. Sad that they haven't even tried to do anything.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 07:58 pm
Terri Schiavo has been living an un-natural LIFE for 15 years. There's no reason to prolong it any longer; and dying of malnutrition/thirst is a quite natural phenomenon.

baldimo:
Quote:
I don't think there is going to be a fall out over this one issue. I don't agree with the GOP on this issue but I do think they had the best intentions in this case. Media attention being the driving force, I'm sure the GOP felt they had to make a play to save the women.


You are dead wrong on this one!!! Smile People don't forget.

What's the count this year for the Republicans?

Clear Skies: Failed
Social Security: Failing (failed, and you know it)
Bankruptcy: Success (grr)
Budget: Failing (infighting)
Ethics: Failed
Schiavo: Failed

Not a good track record so far... and this doesn't even count such gems as Torture documents, Medicaid, failure to have a timeline for Iraq, and everyone's favorite, failure to make progress in the hunt for Osama Bin Laden, something that seems to have been forgotten about completely.

Expect a rough election cycle, especially if things keep going the way they are. If Schiavo is a political football, then the Dems just got a safety.

Cheers

Cycloptichorn
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 08:38 pm
Cyclo, It's a "natural phenomenon" when we are unable to feed ourselves. Otherwise, we are being kept alive artificially by external intervention. My .02c worth. Wink
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 08:38 pm
JustWonders wrote:
c.i. - that's your opinion and you are welcome to it.

My opinion is that Terri Schiavo is dying an unnatural death in having nutrition and water denied her.

When (and if) her medical records are released after her death, you will most likely see that a pain medication of some type was mercifully administered, as there is no definitive nor conclusive "proof" that brain-impaired patients feel no pain.


"Brain-impaired" is just a little bit of an understatement regarding the facts, don't you think JW?

Terri will finally get some peace, as well as Michael and those who see this as a merciful ending to a painful, conflicted and divisive political process over many years. With this painful issue excacerbated by politically driven desperate congressmen worried over losing their religious constituency, can you imagine an even more merciful way by gently euthanizing Terri instead?

And can you imagine the Christian Right's backlash in seeing that take place under the watchful eyes of a government firmly in Republican control?

Perhaps there is still hope for American federalism...

This issue is one of blind faith over reasoned compassion, and we can only look to Dr. Frist, who has pulled the plug many times in his past, as a stellar example of knowing when it's time to go. Would it help to look back on every circumstance that Dr. Frist had to cease artificial sustenance to a permanently disabled patient in order to put this issue a bit more in perspective?
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 08:40 pm
Baldimo wrote:
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
Baldimo wrote:
Why haven't the feminists weighed in on this issue? I'm surprised that NOW hasn't been at the hospital doing their own little protest. Imagine a husband being able to end the life of his wife. It should have been a hot button issue from them. So far I haven't heard a word from them.


Do they usually call you? Wow.


Do you always deflect a serious question with lame humor?

You have to realize, I agree with the husband in what he is doing. If she did say this to him then how would the parents know? When a husband and wife are lying in bed having a conversation I know my parents or in-laws are not there to hear every word said in a private conversation during private moments.

I was only asking about groups like NOW because they are so strong for women's rights except for Terry or Nichole Brown Simpson. They didn't support her after she was killed. Instead they supported OJ instead of a battered woman. Sad that they haven't even tried to do anything.


Gosh, kind of touchy there. Didn't mean to offend. I'll resist any urge to state my opinion on the lameness of your question because I don't know you and I suppose it's possible, in fact apparent that you could actually ask such a question in seriousness.

And btw there's really nothing to do but let this non issue play out IMO.
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Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 11:09 pm
Cycloptichorn:

Quote:
You are dead wrong on this one!!! People don't forget.


Your right that would be evident in the last 2 elections! Very Happy Cool

Quote:
What's the count this year for the Republicans?


Not sure, how many times have the Dems refused to work with the admin?

Quote:
Clear Skies: Failed


Don't know about the vote on this one, but it looks like we are going to get drilling in ANWR passed. So it isn't a complete loss.

Quote:
Social Security: Failing (failed, and you know it)


I don't think it will. I think once people get passed the fear mongering of the left we will have the votes we need. As long as the Dems don't pull their filibuster BS we should be ok.

Quote:
Bankruptcy: Success (grr)


I'd say woo hoo, but I don't really care. Hopefully people will spend money a little bit smarter and stop trying to keep up with the Jones's.

Quote:
Budget: Failing (infighting)


It should pass; it always passes in the end. If it didn't then thousands of people would go unpaid including the politicians.

Quote:
Ethics: Failed


Didn't know ethics was a bill to be voted on? You should really try harder, because every politician has an issue with ethics. You guys just don't want to look in the mirror.
Quote:
Schiavo: Failed


Can't blame them for trying. I didn't agree with what they were doing, but I don't really consider it a win for anyone but maybe Terry if she did make that statement to her husband.

Quote:
Not a good track record so far... and this doesn't even count such gems as Torture documents,


It isn't any better then any other second term president. It has only started, just wait till this summer. We will get the judges we want and there isn't much you obstructionists can do about it.
Quote:
Medicaid


I don't see it as an issue. It shouldn't be. It should be cancelled and they should pass legistration to make companies provide insurance for their employees. Tax incentives or even a helping hand in paying for it.

Quote:
failure to have a timeline for Iraq


It was never stated that there would be a time line for Iraq. That is some sort of BS position by the left. Just because you want it doesn't mean it is going to happen. I hope we are there for the next 5 years till we kill all those damn terrorists.

Quote:
and everyone's favorite, failure to make progress in the hunt for Osama Bin Laden something that seems to have been forgotten about completely


Don't know what you are talking about, there are still troops in the mountains of Afghanistan searching and turning over rocks. Maybe the troops I drop in will find him that would be cool.

Quote:
Expect a rough election cycle, especially if things keep going the way they are


You call a few months a prelude to a rough election cycle? You must be as desperate as you sound. The next elections are well over a year away and you are already predicting a loss for the GOP. I wish you good luck.
Quote:
If Schiavo is a political football, then the Dems just got a safety


To know you think that way really lowers my respect for you a notch. This is a person we are talking about here. So much for the compassionate liberal!
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 11:44 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
A poll means nothing asking such a "stupid" quesiton, because it doesn't apply. The "legal guardian" is Michael, and all the courts supports it.

And if they're really murdering a person who knows it or feels pain, all of the courts and the legislatures are of no more consequence than dust in the wind, and it's simply murder.
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candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2005 12:00 am
Simply indiscriminintly passing partisan legislation does not entail an inherent goodness or societal benefit.

You're not suggesting that because Bush can push things through, that they are good....are you?
ANWR?
Budget?
"Moral (read: personal) Issues"
Social Security?
No Child Left Behind?

You simply can't point a finger to Bush's re election as vindication, above and beyond what is more likely an impotent Democratic nominee.

Maybe you can. Bush is God.
Right?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2005 12:05 am
Brandon's quote, "And if they're really murdering a person who knows it or feels pain..." The experts in the field of neurology with the right credentials have said over and over that Terri has PVS which precludes pain and suffering. Next time you are in great pain, you'd better go see Bush to get it cured since you don't trust the experts in the field.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2005 12:23 am
DeLay, Deny and Demagogue
By MAUREEN DOWD
March 24, 2005

Oh my God, we really are in a theocracy.

Are the Republicans so obsessed with maintaining control over all branches of government, and are the Democrats so emasculated about not having any power, that they are willing to turn the nation into a wholly owned subsidiary of the church?

The more dogma-driven activists, self-perpetuating pols and ratings-crazed broadcast media prattle about "faith," the less we honor the credo that a person's relationship with God should remain a private matter.

As the Bush White House desperately maneuvers in Iraq to prevent the new government from being run according to the dictates of religious fundamentalists, it desperately maneuvers here to pander to religious fundamentalists who want to dictate how the government should be run.

Maybe President Bush should spend less time preaching about spreading democracy around the world and more time worrying about our deteriorating democracy.

Even some Republicans seemed appalled at this latest illustration of Nietzsche's observation that "morality is the best of all devices for leading mankind by the nose."

As Christopher Shays, one of five House Republicans who voted against the bill to allow the Terri Schiavo case to be snatched from Florida state jurisdiction and moved to federal court, put it: "This Republican Party of Lincoln has become a party of theocracy. There are going to be repercussions from this vote."

A CBS News poll yesterday found that 82 percent of the public was opposed to Congress and the president intervening in this case; 74 percent thought it was all about politics.

The president, who couldn't be dragged outdoors to talk about the more than a hundred thousand people who died in the horrific tsunami, was willing to be dragged out of bed to sign a bill about one woman his base had fixated on. But with the new polls, the White House seemed to shrink back a bit.

The scene on Capitol Hill this past week has been almost as absurdly macabre as the movie "Weekend at Bernie's," with Tom DeLay and Bill Frist propping up between them this poor woman in a vegetative state to indulge their own political agendas. Mr. DeLay, the poster child for ethical abuse, wanted to show that he is still a favorite of conservatives. Dr. Frist thinks he can ace out Jeb Bush to be 44, even though he has become a laughingstock by trying to rediagnose Ms. Schiavo's condition by video.

As one disgusted Times reader suggested in an e-mail: "Americans ought to send Bill Frist their requests: 'Dear Dr. Frist: Please watch the enclosed video and tell us if that mole on my mother's cheek is cancer. Does she need surgery?'"

Jeb, keeping up with the '08 competition, vainly tried to get Florida to declare Ms. Schiavo a ward of the state.

Republicans easily abandon their cherished principles of individual privacy and states rights when their personal ambitions come into play. The first time they snatched a case out of a Florida state court to give to a federal court, it was Bush v. Gore. This time, it's Bush v. Constitution.

While Senate Democrats like Hillary Clinton, who are trying to curry favor with red staters, meekly allowed the shameful legislation to be enacted, at least some Floridian House members decided to put up a fight, though they knew they couldn't win.

The president and his ideological partners don't believe in separation of powers. They just believe in their own power. First they tried to circumvent the Florida courts; now they're trying to pack the federal bench with conservatives and even blow up the filibuster rule. But they may yet learn a lesson on checks and balances, as the federal courts rebuffed them in the Schiavo case.

Mr. DeLay moved yesterday to file a friend of the court brief with the Supreme Court asking that Ms. Schiavo's feeding tube be restored while the federal court is deciding what to do. But as he exploits this one sad case, Mr. DeLay has voted to slash Medicaid by $15 billion, denying money to care for poor people in nursing homes, some on feeding tubes.

Mr. DeLay made his personal stake clear at a conference last Friday organized by the Family Research Council, a conservative Christian group. He said that God had brought Terri Schiavo's struggle to the forefront "to help elevate the visibility of what's going on in America." He defined that as "attacks against the conservative movement, against me and against many others."

So it's not about her crisis at all. It's about his crisis.

E-mail: [email protected]
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2005 12:29 am
"hypocrite - n. one who pretends to be pious, virtuous, etc. without really being so"
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2005 12:34 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Cyclo, It's a "natural phenomenon" when we are unable to feed ourselves. Otherwise, we are being kept alive artificially by external intervention. My .02c worth. Wink
Rolling Eyes Per your stated wishes; if someone ever shows up to let us know you're unable to feed yourself; I'll be sure and point them to the appropriate posts.

JustWonders wrote:
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
When (and if) her medical records are released after her death, you will most likely see that a pain medication of some type was mercifully administered, as there is no definitive nor conclusive "proof" that brain-impaired patients feel no pain.
and that will prove "erring on the side of pain medication just in case and nothing more".
I know I said I was done here, but I forgot to welcome BVT to A2K so I'm doing so now. Welcome!

And while I'm at it; I should probably point out that his/her "erring on the side of pain medication…" would constitute reasonable doubt in any reasonable person's mind I know… and consequently any jury I were ever a member of (I'd like to think). Idea
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2005 01:07 am
I read the "end of life" protocols for Terri that were posted on the internet with respect to the last time she was taken off the feeding tube. The protocols required monitoring her for signs of pain or discomfort and for the administration of pain medication.

It's good that everyone is so willing to err on the side of pain medication . . . just in case she actually feels pain. But, very few people are willing to err on the side of life . . . just in case she would have desired to live.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2005 06:02 am
Yesterday, I bought a cabbage at the local HEB grocery store. I had them put it in a brown paper bag so I could get it inside my home without Jeb or Tom being made aware it has been lopped off at the root and has no sustenance. Already, the neighbors have begun impugning my character and suggesting I had a hand in murdering the innocent vegetable. Honest, folks, some migrant farm worker did it. All I'm doing is harboring it until the wife decides it is time to end it and turn it to coleslaw.
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