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Has the Schiavo case Become a Political Football?

 
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 09:32 pm
I repeat, if she were physically capable of oral feeding ....why the feeding tube for 15 years?
What is more, why would a judge interfere with normal intake of food and drink.
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 09:32 pm
yes, please
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 09:33 pm
I'm just dying to know...
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 09:48 pm
indeed
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 10:12 pm
goodfielder wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
It seems Congress doesn't understand what our Constitution says about the Separation of Powers. They not only passed legislation to tell the courts what to do, but criticized the court's decision because they didn't like the final decision.

Imagine criticizing the court for ordering the murder of a helpless woman! The cads!


How did they order a "murder" Brandon9000? I know what you mean of course but I'm going to call you out on it.

No prob. They agreed that Michael Schiavo could murder her. Clear now?
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 10:23 pm
I found the case distasteful in the way it was blown in the media so I didn't really follow it that closely. But I seem to remember that what started congress getting involved was after a decision was reached by a court of law. Wasn't a trial and jury involved in those cases originally brought by either the husband or the parents? Wasn't evidence provided to a jury during a trial and then the jury decided based on the evidence presented to them?

After that; didn't the parents start a petition or whatever and then congress or congressional members started getting involved and it was that involvement that the courts refused to get involve with, I think that was how it went.

If people can make out what I said, do I have it right so far? If I do then it wasn't a court just deciding at the end to let her die but it was the court deciding to let the previous verdict which was decided on by a trial to stand.
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 10:55 pm
Quote:
No prob. They agreed that Michael Schiavo could murder her. Clear now?


Oh, so far from it...
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 12:03 am
Dookiestix wrote:
Debra_Law wrote:
Again, Judge Greer's reasoning for denying the motion to feed Terri by mouth is available in his judicial opinion dated March 8, 2005. That judicial opinion is available on the "court documents" section of this website.


By mouth? Excuse me? Laughing


News flash: The intake orafice for food and water is the mouth. Are you not from planet earth? Apparently not. What end of the body do you shove your food into? Shocked
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 12:10 am
Dookiestix wrote:
Wait!! I still need to send that video of this growth on my a$$ to Dr. Frist so's I can find out the diagnosis.



Rolling Eyes

growth? I thought it was your feeding tube. :wink:
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 12:24 am
Dookiestix wrote:
Lash wrote:
Dookie--

I think that language did appear in one of the decisions. Everyone knows her feeding tube was through her bellybutton, but I'm almost sure her parents (through attys) made some reques that made an issue of food or liquid by mouth----It may have been the "mass" thing. I can't think of the word, now....The wine and unleavened bread thing.

They ended up putting a drop of wine on her lip---which likely rolled off....


Then somebody should tell Debra_Law...


The Schindlers made a motion to the court to allow them to feed Terri by mouth after the feeding tube was removed. The Schindlers wanted permission to provide food and water to Terri through her mouth so she wouldn't starve and dehydrate to death. Judge Greer denied their motion.

Why is so difficult for you to understand a simple concept of feeding someone by mouth? I gave you the link, you can read the court's decision.

I'm sipping coffee right now. I'm placing the cup to my lips. The coffee is entering my mouth. I swallowed the coffee. Do I have to draw you a diagram?
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 12:52 am
Ignorant
Gelisgesti wrote:
I repeat, if she were physically capable of oral feeding ....why the feeding tube for 15 years?
What is more, why would a judge interfere with normal intake of food and drink.


I have to go back and find the link to your post on ignorance. Why haven't you read up on the case? Why haven't you clicked on the links provided and read the court documents? Why do you pretend not to understand a simple concept? The Schindlers asked for permission to provide their daughter with the normal intake of food and water, and the judge denied their request.

Terri was capable of oral feeding. Her former nurses testified that they used to give her both liquid and pudding by mouth until Michael ordered them to stop.

Additionally, people like Terri and other disabled persons eat very slowly and need a lot of assistance from their caregivers. How many hospitals, nursing homes, or hospices can spare a worker to spend all that time feeding just one patient? And if the time can't be spared, how can the caregivers ensure that the patient is getting enough nutrition and hydration to sustain his/her needs? It's not that difficult to understand why a feeding tube is used.

The problem, however, if you rely solely on the feeding tube, the patient loses the capacity to swallow. Retraining becomes necessary.

Because Schiavo could swallow her own saliva, more than two dozen neurologists and speech therapists filed affidavits in her case stating that she should be given the chance to relearn how to be fed by spoon before her gastric tube was removed.

THE JUDGE DENIED THE MOTION to feed Terri by mouth. No food or drop of water was allowed to pass her lips. And then you ask why would a judge interfere with normal intake of food and drink? Because the whole point of removing the feeding tube was to MAKE HER DEAD. If she was allowed to have food and water by mouth . . . she would live.

Do you get it now? This was not about honoring Terri's alleged wishes with respect to consenting to or refusing medical treatment . . . this entire case was about CAUSING HER DEATH.

Now go back to the Florida Statute at issue with respect to Health Care Advance Directives:

Quote:


765.101 Definitions.--As used in this chapter:

(10) "Life-prolonging procedure" means any medical procedure, treatment, or intervention, including artificially provided sustenance and hydration, which sustains, restores, or supplants a spontaneous vital function. The term does not include the administration of medication or performance of medical procedure, when such medication or procedure is deemed necessary to provide comfort care or to alleviate pain.


765.102 Legislative findings and intent.--

(1) The Legislature finds that every competent adult has the fundamental right of self-determination regarding decisions pertaining to his or her own health, including the right to choose or refuse medical treatment. This right is subject to certain interests of society, such as the protection of human life and the preservation of ethical standards in the medical profession.


This is not a "right to die" statute. This statute concerns an individuals right to 1) choose medical treatment; or 2) refuse medical treatment.

An individual may execute an advance directive instructing the doctors to withdraw life-prolonging treatment including "artificially provided" sustenance and hydration. BUT NOTHING in the statute authorizes a guardian, proxy, or judge to order that no food or water pass her lips. She should have been allowed "naturally provided" sustenance and hydration through her mouth.

Yet, the judge had armed guards posted at her door and around the hospice to ensure that no food or water passed her lips. Approximately 50 people were arrested for trying to bring her water. This case was not about removing artificial feeding . . . this was about making her DEAD.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 01:11 am
Dookiestix wrote:
Quote:
No prob. They agreed that Michael Schiavo could murder her. Clear now?


Oh, so far from it...

You are an expert at not backing up your statements.
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 01:17 am
Quote:


Debra_Law, don't you think it's time to wake up?
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 02:35 am
no food or water by mouth by order of the judge
Quote:
ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that Respondents’ Emergency Expedited Motion for Permission to Provide Theresa Schiavo with Food and Water by Natural Means is DENIED.

DONE AND ORDERED in Clearwater, Pinellas County, Florida, this 8 day of March, 2005.

/s/ George W. Greer
Circuit Judge
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 02:52 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
goodfielder wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
It seems Congress doesn't understand what our Constitution says about the Separation of Powers. They not only passed legislation to tell the courts what to do, but criticized the court's decision because they didn't like the final decision.

Imagine criticizing the court for ordering the murder of a helpless woman! The cads!


How did they order a "murder" Brandon9000? I know what you mean of course but I'm going to call you out on it.

No prob. They agreed that Michael Schiavo could murder her. Clear now?


Not a bit. But don't worry about it.
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 02:53 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
Dookiestix wrote:
Quote:
No prob. They agreed that Michael Schiavo could murder her. Clear now?


Oh, so far from it...

You are an expert at not backing up your statements.


Pot.
Ketttle.
"Black"
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 03:25 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
It seems Congress doesn't understand what our Constitution says about the Separation of Powers. They not only passed legislation to tell the courts what to do, but criticized the court's decision because they didn't like the final decision.


And if you had ever read Article 3 of the Constitution,it says in Article 3 section 2..."In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.

The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed."

That means that Congress has the authority AND power to tell the federal courts what is in their jurisdiction or not.
Congress can tell the courts that traffic tickets are the federal courts jurisdiction if they want to.
That is why they can tell the courts what to do.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 05:46 am
Lash wrote:
<hee>

Have you heard about what they're doing to that poor girl's ashes? Her parents and her husband are having duelling funerals. What a sorry spectacle.


Lash- It goes back to what was one of the original points in this entire arguement. Whom is a person's next of kin? Obviously, the courts have decided that a spouse trumps the rights of parents. I think that the Schindlers have little understanding about the parameters of their "rights" with regard to their daughter.

If the Schindlers want to make jackasses of themselves, they are entitled to do so. From what I have read, there is an obviously greater agenda going on, but the Schindlers have been made fools and patsies by those groups who used the tragedy of Terri to foster their ends.

I feel very sad for them. I think that the groups that bankrolled the Schindler's legal defense fund, if those groups care at all beyond their own agenda, need to shell out a bit more..............so that the Schindlers receive some therapy. Mr. Schindler looks like hell, and the two of them still believed that they were right in their assertions. They never were, but they were sold a bill of goods by people with ulterior motives, and probably believe it by now.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 06:07 am
goodfielder wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
goodfielder wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
It seems Congress doesn't understand what our Constitution says about the Separation of Powers. They not only passed legislation to tell the courts what to do, but criticized the court's decision because they didn't like the final decision.

Imagine criticizing the court for ordering the murder of a helpless woman! The cads!


How did they order a "murder" Brandon9000? I know what you mean of course but I'm going to call you out on it.

No prob. They agreed that Michael Schiavo could murder her. Clear now?


Not a bit. But don't worry about it.

You can look at someone killing someone else and keep repeating that it's not murder if you like, but that's what the word means.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 06:08 am
goodfielder wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
Dookiestix wrote:
Quote:
No prob. They agreed that Michael Schiavo could murder her. Clear now?


Oh, so far from it...

You are an expert at not backing up your statements.


Pot.
Ketttle.
"Black"

Give two examples to document my expertise. You could only have said this validly from long exposure to my posts, and I don't even remember you being here that long. Anyone can claim anything. Don't bother asking me to do it for Dookiestix first. It took about one minute to find two examples of asserting an opponent was wrong without giving reasoning:

Dookiestix wrote:
Brandon wrote:
Not every reference to the Holocaust is "low" regardless of context.


It is in this case...


Dookiestix wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
No prob. They agreed that Michael Schiavo could murder her. Clear now?


Oh, so far from it...
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