Biological organisms are [i]primarily[/i] Software Defined Lifeforms. - Yes or No?

@Olivier5,

“That’s a blatant lie” is not much of an argument. Will you accept a 3rd party's word?

Quote:

The genetic code contained within the DNA of a cell is transcribed into messenger RNA -- mRNA -- and then transcribed into proteins that either form the structure of a cell, act as a signal or carry out a biochemical reaction as an enzyme. Without DNA, a cell will be unable to replicate, alter its genetic state or replenish mRNA and proteins as they are damaged. Thus, a cell will be stuck with existing resources to carry out its current function until it decays to the point that it is identified by the immune system as waste to be degraded.

https://sciencing.com/would-happen-cell-dna-2424.html

The fact is a cell’s life is radically shortened if the DNA is gone. You have effectively cut its throat if you remove the DNA. There are other processes that will continue for a short time like the mitochondria which has its own separate DNA. But removing the DNA is a death sentence.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Tsk tsk tsk. Americans and their diets... Don't act surprised if it gets overweight and prone to CPU attack.

0 Replies

@Leadfoot,

It's not an argument but a fact. A cell would not immediately die if its DNA stopped operating. You third party quote only confirms that:

"[Such] a cell will be stuck with existing resources to carry out its current function until it decays to the point that it is identified by the immune system as waste to be degraded."

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

It's not an argument but a fact. A cell would not immediately die if its DNA stopped operating. You third party quote only confirms that:

"[Such] a cell will be stuck with existing resources to carry out its current function until it decays to the point that it is identified by the immune system as waste to be degraded."

We are quibbling about what 'immediately' means. I didn’t say instantly. But it would be a very short time. Especially if all the DNA (including mitochondrial DNA). Mitochondria produce all the energy for the cell in the form of ATP. I’ll have to look it up but I think this would be similar to pulling the plug on your PC. It will run for a time, but it’s measured in milliseconds.

So is it this short time that it lives after DNA removal that we are talking about? I don’t see the significance of it to the premise of the OP.

But I can make a comparison of this to software driven systems.

DNA driven systems are much like IOT (internet of things) systems in that the OS software is talking to smart peripherals (like mitochondria).
In computer software systems, just as in cellular systems, it is not the CPU that accomplishes every task. It only directs the smart peripherals. For example, the CPU might tell a peripheral to do a DMA transfer from a serial input to memory. Even if the operating system crashes or is magically removed, the smart peripherals will continue their tasks until they need further direction from the OS. This is directly comparable to what would happen in a cell if the DNA were removed or stopped.

2 Replies

@Leadfoot,

Quote:

So is it this short time that it lives after DNA removal that we are talking about? I don’t see the significance of it to the premise of the OP.

The fact that a cell can operate without DNA for a little while (a few days) while a computer immediately stops operating if you delete its software makes an important difference. It PROVES that DNA is not analogous to a "software". It does not operate the cell. I.e. it does not control or direct each single move of a cell like a software does to a hardware. It just helps in maintaining the cell healthy and functional.

And in turn, this makes another important difference: it means that we are not controlled by our genes on a day to day basis, that what we do and not do with our lives has very little to do with what genes we have inherited.

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

Quote:

The fact that a cell can operate without DNA for a little while (a few days) while a computer immediately stops operating if you delete its software makes an important difference.

I would need to see a reference for that 'few days' lifespan without DNA.

You are trying to compare the whole cell to the computer. That is not what we are comparing. The cell is the whole system, not just the CPU. In the software side, the system can consist of a computer and many intelligent peripherals as I explained before. If you stop the computer the peripherals will continue their assigned tasks, Just like in the cell.

Quote:

It PROVES that DNA is not analogous to a "software". It does not operate the cell. I.e. it does not control or direct each single move of a cell like a software does to a hardware. It just helps in maintaining the cell healthy and functional.

Read my last reply again. You have not addressed the arguments I made. You have in no way invalidated the comparison of DNA and Software.

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

I should add one more thing. Even if I accepted your premise that DNA is only for 'maintenance', that maintenance is done by a mechanism indistinguishable from software and hardware, and the DNA is the software portion of that system.

Also one wonders how it could reproduce without DNA.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
No. Medical, Agricultural, Pharmaceutical, Paleontology, etc.

None of this requires the theory of evolution.

It all benefits from the theory. People use it Every. Single. Day. You asked me to give examples. I did. There you go.

If you doubt that the people in the field who are using it find it useful, then I'll have to let you debate with them. I don't know what else to say, you seem to be in complete and utter denial.

1 Reply

Here’s the best answer from Answers from Yahoo:

Quote:

Can a living thing survive without DNA?

Answers:

Best Answer: It wouldn't be considered a living thing if it didn't have DNA, so it's a circular question and therefore invalid.
Kryptonian ·

I’m in full agreement.

0 Replies

@Leadfoot,

In essence, DNA is a manuel of "tricks" for hardware synthesis, maintenance, sustainance, growth and multiplication. It doesn't tell the hardware what to do. Rather, it helps build the hardware, and helps rebuild it again and again.

So if it's a software, it's the software to produce the hardware.

1 Reply

@rosborne979,

I did say there is some exception in Paleo.
But it still assumes that the changes were to Darwinian evolution. They can not determine what actually made that trail of genetic changes. But true, it really does not matter to the paleontologist where they came from. He just follows them.

The others do not need or require any theory of evolution. It’s all about mutation.

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Quote:

In essence, DNA is a manuel of "tricks" for hardware synthesis, maintenance, sustainance, growth and multiplication.

Pretty ******* amazing if you ask me.

Quote:

It [DNA] doesn't tell the hardware what to do.

Here you are simply denying non controversial fact about DNA.
Do you know the actual process that the cell uses to manufacture a protein?
If you did, you could not make this absurd statement.

Quote:

Rather, it helps build the hardware, and helps rebuild it again and again.

And the way it 'helps' is by supplying the precise instructions on how to build a protein.
It is exactly like the process in a 3D printer where the software supplies the instructions to the 3D printer on how to make the part desired.

In the cell, the ribosome is the equivalent of the 3D printer. The DNA is the software that drives the printer. The protein is the part printed out.

This is the process that instantly stops if you remove the DNA. The mitochondria will continue to work for awhile but only because they have their own separate DNA.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

I was very clear , I just notice that defiant ignorance should be on your tee shirt. You state something, stick with it without exploring the facts .You like to deny good information people present to you and then you dismiss it with prejudice.

Like the very definition of "theory" that you seem to forget on purpose.

0 Replies

@Leadfoot,

I, at least understand the full action of the nucleic acid strings and how they adjoin. You try to pot your opinions which ,I can see, are derived from someone else who needs to do more study on the subject. Ive never said I was an expert on computers, but I did state that I am quite conversant in organic and biochem( and P chem and diffractometry and SHRIMP analyses).
I dont accept your denialism as valid because you dont know of what youre speaking without writing r dembski's religious pouting.

You seem to be hiding behind computer analogies too much when I think, veryone xcept you agree, that humans are learning how to emulate lifes code and apply it to software design (not the other way around). My discussion about the genetic codes in ratites and other genera that have many species contain many different chemical structures ofRNA and DNA at what would be comparable sites. To believe like you wed have to deny genetic variability, genetic disorders, haplotypes , humansexual dimorphism and polymorphism among populations and individuals.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

I’ve never refused to answer an honest direct question from you. Why do you refuse to answer this one?

Quote:

Quote:
what you mss is the fact that the molecular structure IS the information.

Please Explain what you do mean by this and stop responding with irrelevant remarks.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Ive said it three times. The information is incorporated as the very structure of the molecules contained
in the genes.
I really thought that this would be something I could benefit from in learning about puters and the genetic code. Instead, I get your passive aggressive and childish denialism and averting points made by others.
You started out half decent but then your 12 year old petulant kiddie **** takes over.

4 Replies

@Leadfoot,

Truth is never absurd. Your DNA does not control your body, and it does not author your rather confused thoughts. DNA builds the hardware. What you do with that hardware depends on you.

0 Replies

@farmerman,

What amazes me is that he whines about name-calling and insults. I haven't seen anyone call him any names, but he sure insults his interlocutors left, right and center.

0 Replies

@farmerman,

Quote:

Ive said it three times. The information is incorporated as the very structure of the molecules contained in the genes.

You’re Still dodging.

What determined the original structure of those molecules in the origin of life? This is the question I’m asking.

Are you willing to follow this question to its logical conclusion?
I’ll start.

I have clearly stated that any naturally occurring process causing the formation of those molecules will result in a completely random structure/sequence that contains no information.

Do you agree?

The only possible source of functional information from natural causes is random chance.

Agree?

The mathematics exist to calculate the statistical chances of a functional code capable of self reproduction. All that is needed is a reasonable estimate of the minimal functional code size.

Would you agree?

0 Replies

@farmerman,

Quote:

I get your passive aggressive and childish denialism and averting points made by others.

Nothing I can do about your perception of my character.
But exactly what point(s) by others am I denying or averting?
Please be specific.

0 Replies

Biological organisms are [i]primarily[/i] Software Defined Lifeforms. - Yes or No?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know