Could Mohammed add up?

No I'm not smorgs, and in any case I'm on a diet.

er, ebrown, I am going to have to have you beaten very badly....

I've been singing that damned song all day..................

Joe(Songs are like tatoos)Nation

Removing the misconception



1. Heavens and the Earth created in Six days

I do agree that the Qur'an says that the heavens and the earth were created in 6 days i.e. 6 epochs and it is mentioned in
Surah Al A'raf chapter 7 verse 54
Surah Yunus chapter 10 verse 3
Surah Hud chapter 11 verse 7
Surah Al Furqan chapter 25 verse 59
Surah Al Sajdah chapter 32 verse 4
Surah Qaf chapter 50 verse 38
Surah Al Hadid chapter 57 verse 4
The verses of the Qur'an which according to you say that the heavens and the earth were created in 8 days are Surah Fussilat chapter 41 verses 9 to 12
"Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two days? And do ye join equals With him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds;
He set on the (earth) mountains standing firm, High above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, In four days, in accordance with (the needs of) Those who seek (sustenance)."
Moreover, He Comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke. He said to it and to the earth. "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly. They said: "We do come (Together), in willing obedience."
So He completed them as seven firmaments in two days and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command and We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the decree of (Him) the exalted in might, full of knowledge."
[Al-Qur'an 41:9-12]
On the face of it, it seems that these verses of the Qur'an give the initial impression that the heavens and the earth were created in 8 days.
Allah says in the beginning of this verse that those who exploit this information contained in this passage to raise doubts about its authenticity are equally interested in promulgating blasphemy and denying His unity. Allah is telling us that in course of time, there will emerge unbelievers who will make use of this apparent contradiction.


2. Summa means moreover

If you analyse these verses carefully, it speaks about 2 different creations: the earth and the heaven. The earth excluding the mountains was created in 2 days and the mountains were set on the earth standing firm and blessed and measured its sustenance in 4 days. Therefore the earth along with the mountains was created in 6 days according to verse 9 and 10. Verse 11 and 12 says, moreover the heavens were created in 2 days. The Arabic word used in the beginning of verse 11 of Surah Fussilat is summa which means; ?'then' or ?'moreover'. There are certain Qur'anic translations, which have, used ?'then' for the word summa which, indicates ?'afterwards'. If ?'then' is wrongly used for summa then the total of the creation of heaven and earth will be 8 days which will conflict with other verses of the Qur'an which says heavens and earth were created in 6 days and will also conflict with the Big Bang Theory as well as the verse of the Qur'an Surah Al Ambiya chapter 21 verse 30 which says that heavens and the earth were created simultaneously.
Therefore the correct translation of the word summa in this verse would be ?'moreover'. Abdullah Yusuf Ali has rightly translated the word summa or moreover which clearly gives an indication that while the earth along with the mountains, etc. was created in 6 days simultaneously the heavens were created in 2 days. Therefore the total does not come to 8 days but 6 days.
If a builder says that he will construct a 10 storey building and surrounding compound wall in 6 months and after completion of his project he gives a more detailed account saying that the basement of the building was built in 2 months and the 10 storeys took 4 months and simultaneously, while the basement and the building was being constructed, he also constructed the surrounding of the building along with the compound wall which took 2 months. Therefore both his first and second descriptions are not contradicting but the second statement gives a more detailed account for the construction.


3. Heavens and the Earth created simultaneously

The Qur'an describe the creation of the universe in several places, sometimes it says the heavens and the earth (7:54, 10:3, 11:7, 25:59, 32:4, 50:38, 57:4) while in other places it says earth and the heaven (49:9-12, 2:29, 20:4) thus further supplementing the verse of Surah Al Ambiya chapter 21 verse 30 which speaks about the Big-Bang and that the heavens and the earth were created simultaneously.
Similarly in Surah Al-Baqara chapter 2 verse 29
"It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Then He turned to the heaven and made them into seven firmaments. And of all things He hath perfect knowledge."
[Al-Qur'an 2:29]
"It is who has created for you all things on the earth summa simultaneously made the heaven into seven firmaments".
Here also if you wrongly translate summa as ?'then' only then would this verse contradict the Big-bang theory and other verses of the Qur'an. Therefore the correct translation of the word summa is ?'moreover' or ?'simultaneously'.

"Allah"Allah is telling us that in course of time, there will emerge unbelievers who will make use of this apparent contradiction."

I didn't say I didn't believe, I just asked if Mohammed could add up.

So how many days = 1 epoch? Lets at least get the units right.

"Allah says in the beginning of this verse that those who exploit this information contained in this passage to raise doubts about its authenticity are equally interested in promulgating blasphemy and denying His unity."

So if you point out what appears to be a simple logical error, you are equally guilty of blasphemy?


ok forget the addition, it REALLY REALLY is not important.

How do you answer the contradiction between free will and predestination?

Free Will or Predestination?

from http://www.secularislam.org/guide/contradictions.htm

The omnipotence of God is everywhere asserted in the Koran; man's will is totally subordinate to God's will to the extent that man cannot be said to have a will of his own. Even those who disbelieve in Him, disbelieve because it is God who wills them to disbelieve. This leads to the Muslim doctrine of predestination which prevails over the doctrine of man's free-will, also to be found in the Koran. As Macdonald says, " the contradictory statements of the Kuran on free-will and predestination show that Muhammad was an opportunist preacher and politician and not a systematic theologian."

Note these are not my original ideas so please dont threaten me with fatwah or the like.

The concept of destiny used in the Qur'an means a measure or the latent possibilities with which Allah (God) created human beings and all things of nature. When Allah (God) (God) created each thing, He determined when it would come into existence and when it would cease to exist. He also determined its qualities and nature. And everything in the universe, the seen and the unseen, is completely subject to the overriding power of Allah (God). Nothing can happen outside His Will.

As for human beings, they are not completely masters of their fates, nor are they puppets subject to the hazards of destiny. Allah (God) gave humans limited power and great freedom, including the freedom of choice. That autonomy makes each individual accountable for his or her deeds.

We cannot know our future and, to a large extent, we cannot control it. But we can make decisions within the limits of what we can control, based on our understanding of the way the world works. If someone chooses to punch his fist into a brick wall, he cannot claim any injustice when it hurts. He knows that the wall exists and that it is hard. That is the reality ?- the "laws of nature" ?- he has to deal with. Yet the ultimate reality is that Allah (God) could make the wall disappear just before one's fist reaches it.

Just as Allah (God) created nature and its laws, He made moral laws, and we cannot claim any injustice if we get punished for disobeying or ignoring those moral laws.

I hope the concept of "free will and predestination in Islam" is clearer to you, Steve.

not to be rude or anything, but the Qur'an is one of the only holy books that is directly from god. most other Holy books are translated from their original language so they are not completely accurate. Also back around Mohammed's time they had to write each copy manually so it could have been that the mistake was made there.

Welcome to a2k atmsktr4. Are you saying God's language is Arabic, and hence non Arabic speakers misunderstand him? If a non Arabic speaker suddenly starts repeating words he does not understand and these turn out to be Arabic, can we assume it is in fact God speaking?

If the Koran dates from the time of Mohammed, why are there no Koranic texts earlier than about 850 AD? Did the early Muslims have so little respect for the very earliest Islamic texts as handed down to them from Mohammed, that they lost them or discarded them? Why does nothing from the time of Mohammed exist?

we just learned about it in my world history class, and that's what the movie said

Yet he never does. Why not? Supposing its not an stupid grown man punching a wall but an innocent child running in pure joy straight towards that plate glass door not realising it to be there? Will Allah make the door disappear? He has the power to do so according to you. No the child slams into the glass which breaks blinding and disfiguring her for life. Yet God could have made the glass disappear. He did not. He, according to your version of things, was content to allow the child to be badly injured. Is God not the all merciful as you say? Or did he not notice the child, in which case he is not omniscient? Or could he not move the glass, in which case he his not omnipotent? Or perhaps for that little girl and her parents, he did not exist?