Where is East?

Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2018 07:21 am

I agree with a lot in this article, but,
I do not think the Roman Catholic Church is in error for adopting paganism...

As I said, the best of both worlds...
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Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2018 07:31 am
If you want to call the far right over here racist then go ahead. Don't call them Republicans because they're not.

Brexit was a racist inspired vote...

Over simplistic and showing a real lack of understanding. People voted to leave the EU for a whole number of reasons, chief being Brussels bureaucracy, not just because they were racist.

The fictional character Citizen Khan voted to leave, as did lots of people whose heritage is outside of Europe.


Note both the British and Pakistani flags with the EU flag crossed out.

You'd find life so much easier if you were prepared to admit when you were wrong.
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2018 01:45 pm
I do not call the vote racist with much pleasure.

I do love the Brits but I think Russia got the best of them and I without a doubt stand with the EU.

A friend of mine from Romania is in England working on a work pass.
He is the nicest person I know.
England is a better place with him there and you can thank the EU for bringing him.

Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2018 02:03 pm
How very sanctimonious of you. And what a load of bullshit. You consider it insulting to be told that you are wrong, and that you are making **** up. That's your beef.
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Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2018 02:08 pm

Norse Mythology Neil Gaiman
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Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2018 07:26 pm
I just heard an Irish man say turty rather than thirty.

This is just another interesting language anomaly that figures into how people of different languages pronounce certain consonants and vowels.

I find this interesting myself being a singer by profession and marveling at various accents and nuances of speech.

I find languages, other than English my native language, incredibly beautiful versus those (often racist people) who become irritated at hearing them spoken.

This topic is also related to the famed Tower of Babel that is mythologically attributed with the origin of all languages.

Sumer did originate their own language but it seems quite evident that other languages likewise sprung up independently in other areas of the world on their own.

There are some theories that Babylonian religion actually came from Mesoamerica including pyramid building and many other ideas.

That we have focused on the traffic coming from Europe to Mesoamerica and overlooked the possible influences coming from ancient Mesoamerica to Europe or Asia.

People often get inflamed with the suggestion of connections between cultures and religions that are clearly evident on the surface but have no viable proof to back them up.

Just because something cannot be proven does not make it wrong.

And just because things are seen with our own eyes does not make it right.

Our eyes can lie...

Train tracks appear to converge in the distance but are actually the very same distance apart.

Optical illusions are no more real than theoretical illusions.
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2018 12:50 am
...people of different languages pronounce certain consonants and vowels.

It's not just those who speak different languages. Even people who speak English have different ways of pronouncing the same words. (I'm not familiar with other languages, so I'm not sure if the same happens across the board)

Our eyes can lie.

...optical illusions...

My eyes just give a different story than those of most others. I have a complete lack of depth perception.
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2018 03:59 am
Wading through more bullshit. The only source for a claim that middle eastern religions originated in "Mesoamerica" would be RR/Cobbler's perfervid imagination. Just as a practical consideration, I'd be interested to know how anyone could allege that there was any communication between the western hemisphere and the easter, so robust an reliable as to transplant a religion.

Again, RR/Cobbler just makes this **** up as he goes along.
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Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2018 03:04 pm
I am not reading your posts Setanta...

Your chance to be nice has passed.
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Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2018 08:15 pm
Oh yeah . . . there's an end to my social life . . . call someone who gives a ****.
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Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2018 10:16 pm
That is a great point Sturgis that those who speak English also pronounce words differently.

I think of how different British English is spoken from US English and even the differences within each type of English.

About optical illusions, one illusion is when we look at the stars in the night sky.

Some are small yet represent galaxies not stars and some are large and represent a small (like our moon) rock and have no light of their own compared to our sun that appears the same size as the moon.

Many of the objects we see in the sky are long gone as it has taken millions of light years for the light to travel to earth. In that time they may simply have decayed and dissipated into space dust.

The sun appears as if it is circling the earth rather than the earth spinning on its axis. It took thousands of years to dispel the flat earth theory as some foolishly still think it is plausible.

How grandiose optical illusions are comparable also to illusions of our own historical past.

To dispel a theory without proof is just as closed-minded as believing in a theory without proof.

The theory of how religions spread from one central place throughout the world does have an enormous amount of credence.

Just comparing the Greek and Roman pantheons, one would have to be totally blind to not see the vast array of similarities. These similarities are also present when comparing other polytheistic religions.

Are these similarities proof? No one similarity is proof on its own but when a wealth of similarities are observed then we uncover a "system" of proliferation. This system seems to use the very same vehicle that words use to travel from one language to another.

For instance the word "king" is rex in Italy, rey in Spain, rik in Norway and Germany (even though the languages are different), roi in France, raj in India, reg in Britain, ra in Egypt.

Now just as the word king has leap from one language to another, customs and religious myths have also crossed the very same barriers, maybe even to a greater degree than words.

Is it merely an illusion that these words for king are so very similar that they are spelled differently because of the various ways people hear or are able to pronounce words in their own dialects? The word for king in China is Wang... is this a derivative of our own word king in English?

Just as a god of war may become a God of the arrow in one culture and God of the sword in another they still bear the same warlike persona.

When all of the similarities are calculated we see a pattern of spread from one source (Mesopotamia) to another, from the Greeks to the Romans and onto all pagan systems in contact with one another.

The Romans conquered nearly the known world and this may be the main influence of the world "rex" traveling to other cultures.

But we also see similarities in words like mother and father and types of foods, mathematical and science words and words associated with trade.

Why would not culture also be exchanged in myths and stories of rulers and Gods?

Indeed the vast array of similarities in myths are present when we compare religious systems.

Much like the Zodiac which is present in many cultures it carries similarities down to the very star names such to the degree that it is nearly impossible to tell where it actually originated.

"The classical map of the sky, with the 48 Greek constellations, was derived from at least two different pre-Greek traditions. One tradition comprised the 12 signs of the zodiac, with several associated animal constellations, all of which developed over 3,200-500 BC in Mesopotamia in a religious or ritual tradition."

The Origin of the Zodiac

Some may want to argue where the Zodiac originated from but, it seems if it can proliferate and become associated with so many pantheons of different systems of Gods and Goddesses and the stories that accompany them then, we can easily surmise that a lot more intercultural exchange was occurring than that which is thought by many.

The ancients were spreading their polytheism and cultures far and wide. It would only take one person knowledgeable in any particular system to spread an entire religion to another similar culture with the same predilection to adopt polytheism.

Wandering travelers much like our missionaries of today would certainly have considered their own religion the "good news" of their time. Much like people who cannot help themselves to wish others "Merry Christmas" knowingly to those of other faiths

With the preponderance of evidence we can rightfully conclude that religious intercultural exchange was much more than an illusion but it was a rule. Paganism did not sprout up independently but it evolved with the spread of monotheism from culture to shining culture.

Therefore paganism and polytheism they can be seen as one religion rather than many varying regions such that when one chooses to pick one as a favorite they are in actuality picking all of them.

Underneath the various "seemingly" different stories is the exact self-same mystery religion.

All roads lead to Babylon...
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2018 05:25 am
TheCobbler wrote:
With the preponderance of evidence we can rightfully conclude that religious intercultural exchange was much more than an illusion but it was a rule. Paganism did not sprout up independently but it evolved with the spread of monotheism from culture to shining culture.

Therefore paganism and polytheism they can be seen as one religion rather than many varying regions such that when one chooses to pick one as a favorite they are in actuality picking all of them.

Couldn't you also say that paganism and polytheism can be seen as satanism, to the extent followers choose them for the sake of opposing some other religion that they hate?

By 'satanic,' I am specifically referring to the meaning of the word, 'satan,' as 'opposer.' So you could say that the spirit of opposition is what brings people to certain religions that are pagan/polytheist, i.e. because they were raised or otherwise presented with Christianity or other monotheistic religion and they felt negativity toward it so they sought a religion that would go against it and go against Christians/Jews/Muslims, i.e. 'oppose' them and 'their' God.
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2018 09:44 am
I see monotheism as the rebellious religion and some simplistic form of polytheism as the religion that is natural and pure. Religions like that of some American Indians who reverence the earth, respect the power of the sun and sky and the spirit of the creatures that we share this earth with. Monotheism has no love for nature... In fact it separates us from nature such that we lord over it without concern for our evolutionary connection to it.

The sun is an apparent higher power. It will long outlive even our planet Earth and it is definitely a power greater then we can ever conceive of. The sun created our earth and the planets that orbit it. Not God. Our sun as creator is no mystery at all but many people have no idea of this due to "opposing" religious indoctrination.

Yes, the sun created the moon and earth that all life as we know it evolved from.

The unnatural rebellion and opposer is to create and imagine an "invisible God" and call it all powerful to distract and deviate the world from our wondrous sun. To create this god in our own image so we lose our collective equality and become subservient to sexism and the ego of the few.

Sun worship is the greatest religion we can ever have. The moment that sun worship is turned back upon ourselves and we worship men and women as god then we lose the natural and become unnatural. Let there be light, the sun creates light, not God. The very thoughts in our brains are electrical impulses not unlike the suns's power.

We lose our humble state and take on corruption and fallibility when we lose the sun God.

God the son versus God the sun.

...and humans make terrible gods.

Paganism and Polytheism was first because it is the closest to the truth and to all that is natural. They both began with sun worship.

Monotheism is an abstract idea made up by people who over complicate the simplicity of our existence for personal gain. If people will believe that God is invisible then they will believe God is anything that is then subsequently proposed.

The sun is a higher power, a god to us, life giver, it gives us our daily bread and is always with us and we can be absolutely certain that it exists. No faith is necessary.

Satanism is worship of humanity.

"I shall be like God and sit in the most high."

That is what satanism is and that satanism is alive and well in Abrahamic religions. God the father and Lord and "master"...

Kings... clerical rule, elitism, racism, religious legalism that oversteps natural laws, terrorism....

That is satanism.

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Humans will never sit in the sun temple. Only the sun can occupy that domain. We can create religions that usurp that power of the sun but they are only a delusion of grandeur, a slippery slope to human deism.
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Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2018 09:58 am
The greatest religion is when humans become kings of kindness, lords of love, masters of humility and, priests and clerics of diversity.

Jealous Gods are nothing but attention whores. Smile
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Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2018 01:21 pm

Snake Goddess and Child
Mesopotamia, first half of fourth millennium BC.

Snakes are associated with the moon and the female aspect, with the moon because the moon sheds its shadow as the snake sheds its skin, and with the female because the snake is close to the ground of physical reality and the female creates physical babies.

The moon has two aspects, one is the whole cycle represented by the goddess, and the other is each phase of the moon, the godchild. The godchild is incarnate born as the new moon, grows as the waxing crescent, matures as the full moon, ages and declines as the waning crescent, and finally dies as the new or dark moon. The dark or new moon is death and birth simultaneously. So the godchild is bios the incarnation that lives and dies, but the goddess is zoe, representing the whole.

The sculpture represents the mother goddess, or snake/moon goddess nurturing the child. What appears to be a hat or hair on the head of the goddess may actually be the cast off shed skin.

Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2018 04:29 pm
It's telling that you feel the need to pick sides.
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2018 09:00 pm
It sometimes seems that way but I am trying to express things matter of fact.

I have actually picked both sides as they each have valuable life lessons. Though I do so with skepticism when it comes to zealous faith.

I believe the best of both worlds approach is a wise course.

I just reserve the idea of putting total credence in any system.

I am simply stating that I believe that monotheism came after polytheism and people can take that for what it is worth.

I also believe that polytheism is closer to nature in essence until it gets weird just as monotheism seems to in its essence have good points until it also gets weird.

This is why I can to this day find not one religion that satisfies my longing for purity and truth. They all get dark and veer off from a wholesome endeavor. Even some of the more peaceful spiritual experiences like Buddhism gets dark and loses its luster upon closer inspection.

The world needs a religion that has merit and goodness throughout its entire body.
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2018 10:05 pm
The world needs a religion that has merit and goodness throughout its entire body.

Why settle for a second-hand religion?
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2018 01:54 am
Not sure what you mean by second-hand religion but maybe a more perfect religion.

People settle for wrong religion all the time, why not try and get some of it right?
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2018 02:09 am
That is an interesting post, thanks for contributing it.

This goddess is an example of a figure of speech (or perhaps several) called condescencio.

It is when something is attributed with lesser or greater characteristics.

When God is given human characteristics that is condescencio. For instance, when the Bible says the ten commandments were written by "the finger of God", that is condescencio.

Giving God human characteristics.

In this case a human is given the characteristics of a creature thought lesser than humans.

To say the ground is dry that is a statement of fact but to say the ground is "thirsty" that is condescencio.

To give humans characteristics of animals can show our interconnections with nature.

To give a snake human characteristics like saying they are sly and crafty berates the creature.

To attach godlike attributes to humans berates and insults God.

It is notable that snakes actually have greater senses than humans, they can find a person by sensing heat, snakes can see in the dark...

Mother snakes often give birth to their babies in trees by dropping them from the tree so they do not turn around and bite them.

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