5
   

Where is East?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2018 03:31 am
@TheCobbler,
I was talking about EU/UK. I've been away on holiday.

We will continue to trade. If Brexit goes ahead most of us want a deal that's best for both sides, it's called compromise.
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2018 11:56 am
@TheCobbler,
Quote:

Mother snakes often give birth to their babies in trees by dropping them from the tree so they do not turn around and bite them.

A stupid statement. And, I suppose snakes take their tail in their mouth to form into a hoop and roll around to escape.
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2018 12:02 pm
@TheCobbler,
Quote:
@coluber2001,
Not sure what you mean by second-hand religion but maybe a more perfect religion.


You can't shop for a religion like you're shopping for groceries. If you have an established religion then you have an authority for that religion, and there is no such thing as an authority on religion. That's called selling refrigerators to the eskimos.

http://i1.wp.com/predictablerevenue.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/refrigerator-eskimo1.png?resize=426%2C421

“Religion is a defense against the experience of God.”
Karl Jung
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2018 03:01 pm
@coluber2001,
coluber2001 wrote:

You can't shop for a religion like you're shopping for groceries. If you have an established religion then you have an authority for that religion, and there is no such thing as an authority on religion. That's called selling refrigerators to the eskimos.

Religious dogma serves the purpose of conveying dogmas from generation to generation that have the potential to awaken and attenuate people to ideas and spirituality that are transcendent of the religious dogma itself.

Many people fail to transcend the level of dogma and, indeed, there is a whole elaborate culture of taking dogma as dogma and using it to structure texts, education, institutions, and other aspects of life without ever realizing its true purpose. Cynically, you could note that many people use dogma as an escape from the transcendence of dogma to true spiritual enlightenment. I.e. If they just keep reciting the information, they can avoid ever understanding it or putting it into practice.

Quote:
“Religion is a defense against the experience of God.”
Karl Jung

Exactly, but it can also support and inform theological experience for people who have embraced the experience of God and then seek to learn more about what others have experienced and written about while experiencing God.
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2018 10:47 pm
@coluber2001,
Actually you can shop around for a religion.. It is called "churching". People leave one faith because the priest, minister, pastor, rabbi, cleric or whatever are changed. Some change faiths because they move to an area that does not have a church of their religion. Some people spend their lives trying on other religions just to see how they feel like one would try on a new suit or profession. Some people marry into religion. The idea that one is forever stuck in the religion of their birth is prehistoric. Spirituality is an experience where religion is the flavor of the month to many. Many outgrow religions and many wake up and see them for what they are. Many are tossed out of religion due to social status, radical ideas or not contributing enough to the collection plate. Some see it like a social club and prefer one over the other due to a better caliber of people.

Religions are not arranged marriages, some prefer to try it before they buy it.
coluber2001
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 12:38 am
@TheCobbler,
Here is Woody Allen in a movie called Hannah and Her Sisters. The Woody character is having a crisis and is literally shopping for a new religion, Christianity.

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 01:04 am
@coluber2001,
It is, the 30% of snakes who give birth to live young live where it's cold and the ground not warm enough to incubate the eggs.
coluber2001
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 11:16 am
@izzythepush,
It sounds like a good rule of thumb and I suppose there is some truth in it. I never thought of it that way before. Your watersnake and viper both bear live young. There is a great advantage to carrying the young inside your body until they're ready to be born. The internal eggs are thermal regulated along with the mother's body, so she can control the incubation by thermal regulating. And the eggs within the body are safe so long as the mother is safe, whereas eggs in the ground are subject to predators. Of course if the gravid mother is killed all her babies die also.

I read a study in Pennsylvania about timber rattlesnakes. The gravid mothers congregate on a sunny hillside all summer thermal regulating and incubating the young within their bodies. But if a hunter comes along and kills all the snakes, that's a tremendous loss, not just 5 mothers but maybe a hundred young snakes as well.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 11:22 am
@coluber2001,
We've only got three types of snake over here, four if you include the slowworm, which is categorised as a legless lizard. The three real snakes are the endangered and extremely rare smooth snake, the grass snake and the adder. Only adders are venomous, but they're not agressive and tend to keep out of the way.

I've never seen any snakes in the wild, only slowworms.
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 11:25 am
@coluber2001,
In the U.S. there are many egg bearing as well as live-bearing snakes living in the same area. Also some snakes are found to have rather primitive placentas to nourish the young, so the evolutionary trend may be toward carrying the eggs in the body to full maturity.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 11:28 am
@coluber2001,
I do like them, they've never freaked me out at all, then again we don't get aggressive ones and the only snakes I've seen are either in cages or tame ones being held by someone. Those ones are the best because you can give them a stroke.
coluber2001
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 11:36 am
@izzythepush,
I always think of snakes as being the canary in the coal mine, symbolically, at least. When the snakes are all destroyed the environment is not far behind. Snakes, after all, have been viewed as powerful female symbols and symbols of physical Nature as far back as the Paleolithic. The Western male attitude towards both females and nature has been pretty shabby.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 11:49 am
@coluber2001,
They didn't get a good press in the Garden of Eden either. I also like crows, ravens, magpies and the like, very smart creatures much maligned by scripture.
coluber2001
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 12:05 pm
@izzythepush,
Yeah, crows have tons of personality.
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2018 01:08 am
@izzythepush,
In Norse mythology, Huginn (from Old Norse "thought") and Muninn (Old Norse "memory" or "mind") are a pair of ravens that fly all over the world, Midgard, and bring information to the god Odin. ... The names of the ravens are sometimes modernly anglicized as Hugin and Munin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huginn_and_Muninn
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2018 01:16 am
Odin plucking out his eye is clearly a reference to the cyclops of the Greeks.

I am sure if you look hard enough you will find a one eyed Babylonian deity, if not then we can be sure the one eyed Babylonian God myth existed but was lost.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Odin_hrafnar.jpg

...and then we have the all seeing eye of the secret societies.

http://www.crystalinks.com/eyeallseeingmoney450.jpg
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2018 01:18 am
@TheCobbler,
I know, ravens have long associations with all sorts of mythologies. They can give you a look that other creatures can't. Closer to home they're still an essential feature of the Tower of London.

Quote:
Meet the famous ravens at the Tower of London and learn more about why they are known as the guardians of the Tower, at their lodgings on the South Lawn.

The names of our current Tower ravens are Jubilee, Harris, Gripp, Rocky, Erin, Poppy and Merlina. Ravens are intelligent birds and each of ours has its own personality; they can mimic sounds, play games and solve problems. See if you can spot some of their fascinating behaviour on your visit.

It is said that the kingdom and the Tower of London will fall if the six resident ravens ever leave the fortress. There are seven ravens at the Tower today — the required six, plus one spare!

Charles II is thought to have been the first to insist that the ravens of the Tower be protected after he was warned that the crown and the Tower itself would fall if they left.

The King's order was given against the wishes of his astronomer, John Flamsteed, who complained the ravens impeded the business of his observatory in the White Tower.

The ravens are free to roam the Tower precincts during the day and preside over four different territories within the Tower's walls.

You might even be lucky enough to witness the ravens snacking — but please be careful and do not feed the ravens yourself, as they can bite if they feel their territory is being threatened.

These magnificent birds respond only to the Ravenmaster and should not be approached too closely by anyone else.

https://www.hrp.org.uk/tower-of-london/explore/the-ravens/#gs.OMqNWnQ<br />
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2018 04:59 am
Legends of the Caucasus
The Caucasus region near the Black Sea is rich in a folk literature that contains stories seen as variations of the myths of the ancient Greeks, including the Cyclops stories. In Caucasus these tales have been handed down as songs and narrative poems by a strong oral tradition — which is also the tradition of Homer. One reason the oral tradition is strong is that for most of the languages spoken in this mountainous region there was no written alphabet until relatively recently. The stories are not well known to the English speaking world. They began to be written down and collected in the 1890s, as the Nart saga and the Uryzmaeg stories.[31][32]

In the cyclops stories of the Caucasus, the cyclops is almost always a shepherd, and he is also variously presented as a one-eyed, rock-throwing, cannibalistic giant, who says his name is “nobody”, who lives in a cave, whose door is blocked by a large stone, who is a threat to the hero of the story, who is blinded by a hot stake, and whose flock of sheep is stolen by the hero and his men. These motifs are also found in the cyclops stories of Homer, Euripides, and Hesiod.[33][34][35]

One example in a story from Georgia, describes two brothers trapped in the cave of "One-eye". They take the wooden spit from One-eye’s fire, heat it up, stab it into his eye and escape.[36]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclops#Origins
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2018 05:18 am
@izzythepush,
That is a very interesting story.

Thank you Izzy for sharing, I was unaware of this. Smile

It seems many of these myths of the ancient past are paralleled and relived somewhere in the world today due to their connection to everyday life and how we understand the happenings around us.

These sagas are reflective of the same conflicts we as modern humans struggle with and they show that even in paganism and polytheism there were ethical boundaries within the religious systems and they were not devoid of common laws and consequences for reckless and thoughtless immoral behavior.

Even when the world was vanquished of an evil god there was often retaliation and repercussions from the gods.

It reminds us that there is a thin line between justice and revenge, and good and evil.

Though most evil is simply intolerable and reason for justice in and of itself...
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2018 05:26 am
An interesting parallel is the American Indian's worship of the Buffalo and the Minoans worship of the bull, the ceremonial dance centered around these creatures and the wearing of horns in rituals are strikingly similar.

I am not sure if the Mexican bull fight came from Spanish culture (I need to look into that) but the Buffalo worship was definitely native to the pre-conquistador Americas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullfighting
 

 
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