Where is East?

By the way, the pyramids in Ecuador were constructed in the late tenth century of the current era, about 950 CE or later. You're not even close on the timeline, either. All you've got is a mish-mash of impressions.

That is interesting Setanta.

Pre-Columbian Ecuador included numerous indigenous cultures, who thrived for thousands of years before the ascent of the Incan Empire. Las Vegas culture of coastal Ecuador is one of the oldest cultures in the Americas.[1] The Valdivia culture in the Pacific coast region is a well-known early Ecuadorian culture. Ancient Valdivian artifacts from as early as 3500 BC have been found along the coast north of the Guayas Province in the modern city of Santa Elena.

Several other cultures, including the Quitus, Caras and Cañaris, emerged in other parts of Ecuador. There are other major archaeological sites in the coastal provinces of Manabí and Esmeraldas and in the middle Andean highland provinces of Tungurahua and Chimborazo. The archaeological evidence has established that Ecuador was inhabited for at least 4,500 years before the rise of the Inca.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_Ecuador

Actually, I have got Wikipedia, Google and books... just like you.

All of that is irrelevant to what I posted, which, sadly, does not surprise me. You were yammering on about the pyramids in "Ecuador" (a name conferred on the region by the Spanish in the 16th century) and some goofy connection between that region and the middle east. I was pointing out that the culture which produced pyramids in that region of the northern range of the Pacific coast is separated not solely by thousands of miles, but thousands of years from the cultures which arose in the middle east.

You run to Wikipedia just as you run to web sites about ancient aliens, and you produce nothing more coherent from that source than from any of the others that you use.

You are the one yammering on about pyramids...

My point here is that the religious systems of ancient Mesopotamia and the Americas are nearly identical.

So much so it is like saying the Romans and Greeks never had any contact when it is apparent that their nearly identical religious systems were likely borrowed from Mesopotamia as with all other religions of the east.

Your pyramids thing is merely a straw man tossed out to prove nothing.

The ancient Americas had temples, priests, sacrificial ceremonies to the gods and the religious pantheons were clearly derived from the same polytheistic system.

How the contact occurred is not an if but a when...

No, those so-called "religious systems" are not, in fact, alike at all. You were the one who brought up the pyramids in what you continue to refer to as "Ecuador." You are the one who has been yammering nonsense since the beginning of this pathetic thread. You have absolutely no evidence for your goofy thesis . . .. not that that has ever stopped you from yammering on.

Your tone is insulting, you are full of bile and you are not progressing the topic in the least. Take your small, arrogant mind somewhere else and yammer your bitter nonsense there.

And yes, I disagree... the religious systems are nearly identical and you are full of crap... as usual.

You must have been looking in mirror when you came up with that diatribe--you're the one filled with bile. "The topic" is absurd, and I certainly have no desire to "advance" it. Just because you say the religious myths were the same does not make it true. The Greeks had a narrative about the Titans, to explaqin how they were defeated by Zeus, leading to the new pantheon of the Olympians. The Romans had no such tradition. Have you ever read The Epic of Gilgamesh? You rally ought to educated yourself.There is no correlation with the gods of other pantheons, and certainly not anything at all like the Greek and Roman traditions, never mind the religious myths of the Americas.

I am not bitter, you are sometimes entertaining with the bullsh*t you attempt to peddle. This is not a blog site, and although you never participate in any threads other than your own, anyone here is entitled to post in your silly thread. I'm not going anywhere. Learn to deal with it.

Dance is clearly one more similarity shared in common by the all of the ancient religions of the entire world.

These sacred dances have been passed down over many thousands of years from prehistory.

Just as languages have survived and evolved over many thousands of years.

Maybe you need me to go troll your threads?

Linguistic
See also: Proto-Indo-European religion and Proto-Indo-Iranian religion
Some scholars look at the linguistic relationships between the myths of different cultures. For example, the similarities between the names of gods in different cultures. One particularly successful example of this approach is the study of Indo-European mythology. Scholars have found striking similarities between the mythological and religious terms used in different cultures of Europe and India. For example, the Greek sky-god Zeus Pater, the Roman sky-god Jupiter, and the Indian (Vedic) sky-god Dyauṣ Pitṛ have linguistically identical names.

This suggests that the Greeks, Romans, and Indians originated from a common ancestral culture, and that the names Zeus, Jupiter, Dyaus and the Germanic Tiu (cf. English Tues-day) evolved from an older name, *Dyēus ph2ter, which referred to the sky-god or, to give a perfect English cognate, the day-father in a Proto-Indo-European religion.[7]

Structural
Further information: Structuralist theory of mythology and Claude Lévi-Strauss's approach to mythology
Some scholars look for underlying structures shared by different myths. The folklorist Vladimir Propp proposed that many Russian fairy tales have a common plot structure, in which certain events happen in a predictable order.[8] In contrast, the anthropologist Claude Lévi-Strauss examined the structure of a myth in terms of the abstract relationships between its elements, rather than their order in the plot. In particular, Lévi-Strauss believed that the elements of a myth could be organized into binary oppositions (raw vs. cooked, nature vs. culture, etc.). He thought that the myth's purpose was to "mediate" these oppositions, thereby resolving basic tensions or contradictions found in human life or culture.[9]

Psychological
Further information: Analytical psychology and Archetypal psychology
Some scholars propose that myths from different cultures reveal the same, or similar, psychological forces at work in those cultures. Some Freudian thinkers have identified stories similar to the Greek story of Oedipus in many different cultures. They argue that these stories reflect the different expressions of the Oedipus complex in those cultures.[10] Likewise, Jungians have identified images, themes, and patterns that appear in the myths of many different cultures. They believe that these similarities result from archetypes present in the unconscious levels of every person's mind.[11]

Michael Witzel's approach

An approach which is both historical and comparative has recently been proposed by E.J. Michael Witzel.[6] He compares collections of mythologies and reconstructs increasingly older levels, parallel to but not necessarily dependent on language families. The most prominent common feature is a story line that extends from the creation of the world and of humans to their end. This feature is found in the northern mythologies of Eurasia and the Americas ("Laurasia") while it is missing in the southern mythologies of Subsaharan Africa, New Guinea and Australia ("Gondwanaland")—the latter being the older, going back to the dispersal of homo sapiens out of Africa, some 65,000 years ago. Based on these two reconstructions Witzel offers some suggestions about the tales of the "African Eve". Close attention is paid to the largely parallel developments in archaeology, paleontology, genetics and linguistics. He also makes some suggestions about the persistence of these Stone Age myths in current religions.

Phylogenetical
It is speculated that like genes, myths evolve by a process of descent with modification. The striking parallels between biological and mythological evolution[12] allow the use of computational statistics to infer evolutionary relatedness and to build the most likely phylogenetic tree for a mythological family. Mythological phylogenies constructed with mythemes clearly support low horizontal transmissions (borrowings), historical (sometimes pre-historic) diffusions and punctuated evolution.[13] Additionally, the protoversion could be statistically reconstructed. Mythological phylogenies also are a potentially powerful way to test hypotheses about cross-cultural relationships among folktales[14]

Mythological archetypes

The Deluge, frontispiece to Gustave Doré's illustrated edition of the Bible. Based on the story of Noah's Ark, this engraving shows humans and a tiger doomed by the flood futilely attempting to save their children and cubs.
Comparative mythology has uncovered a number of parallels, or archetypes, between the myths of different cultures, including some very widespread recurring themes and plot elements.[15]

Creation of mankind from clay
Main article: Creation of man from clay
The creation of man from clay is a theme that recurs throughout numerous world religions and mythologies.

In the Epic of Gilgamesh, Enkidu is created by the goddess Aruru out of clay. In Greek mythology, Prometheus molded men out of water and earth. Per the Hebrew Bible, (Genesis 2:7) "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul". In Hindu mythology the mother of Ganesh, Parvati, made Ganesh from clay and turned the clay into flesh and blood. And lastly, in Chinese mythology (see Chu Ci and Imperial Readings of the Taiping Era), Nüwa molded figures from the yellow earth, giving them life and the ability to bear children.

Acquisition of fire for the benefit of humanity
Main article: Theft of fire
The theft of fire for the benefit of humanity is a theme that recurs in many world mythologies. A few examples include: In Greek mythology, according to Hesiod, the Titan Prometheus steals the heavenly fire for humanity, enabling the progress of civilization. In the Book of Enoch, the fallen angels and Azazel teach early humanity to use tools and fire. Per the ancient Indian collection of Vedic Sanskrit hymns, the Rigveda (3:9.5), speaks of a hero Mātariśvan who recovered fire which had been hidden from humanity.

Flood myth
Main article: Flood myth
Cultures around the world tell stories about a great flood.[16] In many cases, the flood leaves only one survivor or group of survivors. For example, both the Babylonian Epic of Gilgamesh and the Hebrew Bible tell of a global flood that wiped out humanity and of a man who saved the Earth's species by taking them aboard a boat.[17] Similar stories of a single flood survivor appear in Hindu mythology[18] as well as Greek, Norse mythology and Aztec mythology.[19]

Dying god
Main article: Dying god
See also: Dying-and-rising deity and Descent to the underworld

Ancient Sumerian cylinder seal impression showing the god Dumuzid being tortured in the Underworld by galla demons
Many myths feature a god who dies and often returns to life.[20] Such myths are particularly common in Near Eastern mythologies.[21] The anthropologist Sir James Frazer compared these dying god myths in his multi-volume work The Golden Bough. The Egyptian god Osiris and the Mesopotamian god Tammuz are examples of the dying god, while the Greek myths of Adonis (though a mortal) has often been compared to Osiris and the myth of Dionysos also features death and rebirth.[22] Some scholars have noted similarities between polytheistic stories of dying gods and the Christian story of Jesus of Nazareth.[23]

Creative sacrifice
Many cultures have stories about divine figures whose death creates an essential part of reality.[24][25] These myths seem especially common among cultures that grow crops, particularly tubers.[26] One such myth from the Wemale people of Seram Island, Indonesia, tells of a miraculously-conceived girl named Hainuwele, whose murdered corpse sprouts into the people's staple food crops.[27] The Chinese myth of Pangu,[28] the Indian Vedic myth of Purusha,[29] and the Norse myth of Ymir all tell of a cosmic giant who is killed to create the world.[24]

Axis mundi
Main article: Axis mundi
See also: Yggdrasil, Omphalos, Mount Meru, World tree, and Tree of life
Many mythologies mention a place that sits at the center of the world and acts as a point of contact between different levels of the universe.[30] This axis mundi is often marked by a sacred tree or other mythical object. For example, many myths describe a great tree or pillar joining heaven, earth, and the underworld.[31] Vedic India, ancient China, Mayans, Incas and the Germanic peoples all had myths featuring a Cosmic Tree whose branches reach heaven and whose roots reach hell.[32]

Deus otiosus
Further information: Deus otiosus, Sky father, and Urmonotheismus
Many cultures believe in a celestial supreme being who has cut off contact with humanity. Historian Mircea Eliade calls this supreme being a deus otiosus (an "idle god"),[33] although this term is also used more broadly, to refer to any god who doesn't interact regularly with humans. In many myths, the Supreme Being withdraws into the heavens after the creation of the world.[34] Baluba mythology features such a story, in which the supreme god withdraws from the earth, leaving man to search for him.[35] Similarly, the mythology of the Hereros tells of a sky god who has abandoned mankind to lesser divinities.[36] In the mythologies of highly complex cultures, the supreme being tends to disappear completely, replaced by a strong polytheistic belief system.[37]

Titanomachy
Further information: Titanomachy, Theomachy, and Theogony

The Fall of the Titans (1596–98) by Cornelis Cornelisz van Haarlem
Many cultures have a creation myth in which a group of younger, more civilized gods conquers and/or struggles against a group of older gods who represent the forces of chaos. In Hindu mythology, the younger devas (gods) battle the older asuras (demons),[38] though both are born from the same father, Kashyap, the grandson of Brahma.[39] In the Greek myth of the Titanomachy, the Olympian gods defeat the Titans, an older and more primitive divine race, and establish cosmic order.[38][40] Similarly, the Celtic gods of life and light struggle against the Fomorians, ancient gods of death and darkness.[38] This myth of the gods conquering demons – and order conquering chaos – is especially common in Indo-European mythologies. Some scholars suggest that the myth reflects the ancient Indo-Europeans' conquest of native peoples during their expansion over Europe and India.[41][42]

[Comment TC, and the angels who fall from heavenly favor and humanity is made.]

Giants
Further information: Giants
Associated with many mythological hero stories, giants (from Latin and Ancient Greek: gigas, cognate giga-) are beings of human appearance, but of prodigious size and strength common in the mythology and legends of many different cultures. In various Indo-European mythologies, gigantic peoples are featured as primeval creatures associated with chaos and the wild nature, and they are frequently in conflict with the gods, be they Olympian, Celtic, Hindu or Norse. Giants also often play similar roles in the mythologies and folklore of other, non Indo-European peoples, such as in the Nartian traditions. There are also accounts of giants in the Old Testament. Some of these are called Nephilim, a word often translated as giant although this translation is not universally accepted. They include Og King of Bashan, the Nephilim, the Anakim, and the giants of Egypt mentioned in 1 Chronicles 11:23. The first mention of the Nephilim is found in Genesis 6:4; attributed to them are extraordinary strength and physical proportions.

Dragons and serpents
Further information: Dragons and Serpent (symbolism)
Usually large to gigantic, serpent-like legendary creatures that appear in the folklore of many cultures around the world. Beliefs about dragons vary drastically by region, but dragons in western cultures since the High Middle Ages have often been depicted as winged, horned, four-legged, and capable of breathing fire. Whereas dragons in eastern cultures are usually depicted as wingless, four-legged, serpentine creatures with above-average intelligence.


One on one epic battles between these beasts are noted through out many cultures. Typically they consist of a hero or god battling a single to polycephalic dragon. The motif of Chaoskampf (German: [ˈkaːɔsˌkampf]; lit. struggle against chaos) is ubiquitous in myth and legend, depicting a battle of a culture hero deity with a chaos monster, often in the shape of a sea serpent or dragon. A few notable examples include: Zeus vs. Typhon and Hercules vs. the Lernaean Hydra, both of which are from Greek mythology, Thor vs. Jörmungandr of Norse mythology, Indra vs. Vritra, of Indian mythology, Ra vs. Apep of Egyptian mythology, and Yu the Great vs. Xiangliu. Many other examples exist worldwide.

Ouroboros
Main article: Ouroboros
Originating in ancient Egyptian iconography, the Ouroboros or uroborus is an ancient symbol depicting a serpent or dragon eating its own tail. The Ouroboros entered western tradition via Greek magical tradition.

In Norse mythology, the Ouroboros appears as the serpent Jörmungandr, one of the three children of Loki and Angrboda, which grew so large that it could encircle the world and grasp its tail in its teeth.

In the Aitareya Brahmana, a Vedic text of the early 1st millennium BCE, the nature of the Vedic rituals is compared to "a snake biting its own tail."

It is a common belief among indigenous people of the tropical lowlands of South America that waters at the edge of the world-disc are encircled by a snake, often an anaconda, biting its own tail.

Founding myths
Main article: Founding myth
See also: National myth

Ancient Roman relief from the Cathedral of Maria Saal showing the infant twins Romulus and Remus being suckled by a she-wolf
Many cultures have myths describing the origin of their customs, rituals, and identity. In fact, ancient and traditional societies have often justified their customs by claiming that their gods or mythical heroes established those customs.[43][44] For example, according to the myths of the Australian Karajarri, the mythical Bagadjimbiri brothers established all of the Karadjeri's customs, including the position in which they stand while urinating.[45]

Structure of hero narratives
Further information: Monomyth and Hero
A number of scholars, including Fitzroy Somerset, 4th Baron Raglan and, more recently, Joseph Campbell, have suggested that hero stories from various cultures have the same underlying structure.[46] Folklorists such as Antti Aarne (Aarne-Thompson classification systems) and Georges Polti (The Thirty-Six Dramatic Situations) have created structured reference systems to identify connections between myths from different cultures and regions. Some comparative mythologists look for similarities only among hero stories within a specific geographical or ethnic range. For example, the Austrian scholar Johann Georg von Hahn tried to identify a common structure underlying Aryan hero stories.[47] Others, such as Campbell, propose theories about hero stories in general. According to Campbell's monomyth hypothesis, hero stories from around the world share a common plot structure.[48] Because of its extremely comparative nature, the monomyth hypothesis is currently out of favor with some religious scholars such as Lesley Northup.[5]

Human cannibalism
Further information: Human cannibalism in mythology
Human cannibalism features in the myths, folklore, and legends of many cultures and is most often attributed to evil characters or as extreme retribution for some wrongdoing. Examples include Lamia of Greek mythology, was a woman who became a child-eating monster after her children were destroyed by Hera, upon learning of her husband Zeus' trysts. In Zuni mythology and religion, Átahsaia is a giant cannibalistic demon, feeding on fellow demons and humans alike. He is depicted as having unblinking bulging eyes, long talons, and yellow tusks that protruded past his lips. The myth of Baxbaxwalanuksiwe, in Hamatsa society of the Kwakwaka'wakw indigenous tribe, tells of a man-eating giant, who lives in a strange house with red smoke emanating from its roof.

Help yourself, slick--although most of threads I start are music threads. But knock yourself out, you little cry baby.

What all of that babble "suggests" is that you are desperate to salvage your silly thesis.

What that babble suggests is that you think you are smarter than Wikipedia.

Once again you come back with a response that contains no substance, no argumentative points, just blather.

It is more than a thesis when it is backed up by historical facts.

The comparative similarities clearly exist in the myths as has been laid out, how and why these documented similarities occur? Well, that may require a thesis.

You sound like you are spouting out 40 years old learning that has certainly been advanced over time to a greater understanding of the past.

Today, over one million people cross the Atlantic a day... (an hour) and, you are so confident in saying that no one crossed it in over 6 thousand years?

Guess who is standing ignorantly on a preposterous "thesis"?

Oh, I see you've been honest enough to list your source--Wikipedia. I don't claim to be "smarter" than Wikipedia, but I've seen reams of bullsh*t in their articles, especially after the religious nutbags learned to edit articles there.

Those similarities are not documented. That's why your cited article uses language such as: Some scholars look at . . . ; Some scholars look for . . . ; This suggests . . . ; Some scholars propose . . . --and so forth. This is concomitant with your lack of coherence in your thesis. But I don't really need to address your latest silly sally. The thesis you have attempted to forward in this train wreck of a thread is that religion went from Mesopotamia to Meso-America. Leaving aside that Quito is not in Meso-Ameica, it is more than 8000 miles from where Babylon once stood and where the city of Quito is located. So your attempt to equate the pyramids of what is now called Ecuador with the middle east is bullsh*t. More than that, your article does not mention any Meso-American religious traditions--so all that silly copy and paste effort is wasted, because it does not support your thesis. It does mention Zuni religious traditions--but you lose on geography once again. The Zuni River valley is in what are now called New Mexico and Arizona--once again, nowhere near Meso-America.

Your work is sloppy and lacks coherence. You apparently can't keep track of your thesis from one page of this thread to the next. I have no thesis here, I'm just ridiculing yours, and you consistently fail to support it. I'm not obliged to prove than no one crossed the Atlantic in the last 6000 years. It is up to you to prove that anyone crossed the Atlantic--in particular, coming from Mesopotamia--and successfully inculcated their particular religious myths in the residents of what is now known as Meso-America.

I'm quoting my own post to point out that you have a particular thesis, which you have consistently failed to support.



Furthermore, I had forgotten how hilariously inept your thesis is. You're attempting to claim that the people of Meso-America, with no tradition at all of sea-faring, took their religion to Mesopotamia. Do you claim that people in Meso-America taught the people of the middle east to build pyramids, thousands of years before they built any themselves? Oh my Dog, you're hilarious.

Do you know what 'inept' is?

Saying pre-Colombians did not ever have graven images... lol

That is about as dumb as a board. It also reveals your vast knowledge (joke) and credentials (laugh) regarding this subject.

Or perhaps it more aptly reveals your bias and racism towards the indigenous inhabitants of the Americas?

Temples like this were constructed in, 'Mesoamerica' 3000+ years before Columbus.

Yes, you know those ancient stone architectural wonders where polytheistic religious rituals were performed that are dotted all over the landscape from China to France?

Well, this is one more comparative thing that supports a connection. These are in Mexico, you know, the very heart of Mesoamerica?

These temples were built while the kings and queens of Europe were ruling from wooden castles...



But this does not even have the least striking similarity to the temples in Egypt and Sumeria... (cynical) lol

and this:



And this pyramid:



And this pyramid:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Votive_Pyramid_La_Quemada.JPG
Votive Pyramid at La Quemada

La Quemada
A great quantity of buildings were constructed on artificial terraces upon the slopes of a hill. The materials used here include stone slab and clay. The most important structures are: The Hall of Columns, The Ball Court, The Votive Pyramid, and The Palace and the Barracks. On the most elevated part of the hill is The Fortress. This is composed of a small pyramid and a platform, encircled by a wall that is more than 800m long and up to six feet high. La Quemada was occupied from 800 to 1200. Their founders and occupants have not been identified with certainty but probably belonged to either the Chalchihuites culture or that of the neighbouring Malpaso culture.[9]

Now Wikipedia calls them Mesoamerican pyramids though they may have been "temples" instead. Some believe the word pyramid only applies to burial structures and not temples of worship. But Wikipedia calls these temples, "pyramids".

So blame it on those pesky stupid religious people who call figurines, "graven images".

Mesoamerican pyramids
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_pyramids


Maya pyramids

The Maya are a people of southern Mexico and northern Central America (Guatemala, Belize, western Honduras, and El Salvador) with some 3,000 years of history. Archaeological evidence shows the Maya started to build ceremonial architecture approximately 3,000 years ago. The earliest monuments consisted of simple burial mounds, the precursors to the spectacular stepped pyramids from the Terminal Pre-classic period and beyond.

These pyramids relied on intricate carved stone in order to create a stair-stepped design. Many of these structures featured a top platform upon which a smaller dedicatory building was constructed, associated with a particular Maya deity. Maya pyramid-like structures were also erected to serve as a place of interment for powerful rulers. Maya pyramidal structures occur in a great variety of forms and functions, bounded by regional and periodical differences.

The Mayan pyramids were build for their rulers.. Well that is a novel and original ideal! Kings who are "great fortifiers" and "city builders" not at all similar to Sumeria. (again, cynical)

Mesoamerican pyramid sites:
Aguateca
Altun Ha
Bonampak
Calakmul
Caracol
Chichen Itza
Cholula
Coba
Comalcalco
Copan
Dos Pilas
Edzna
El Mirador
El Tigre
La Danta
Kaminaljuyu
Lamanai
La Venta
Los Monos
Lubaantun
Mayapan
Mixco Viejo
Moral Reforma
Nim Li Punit
Palenque: Temple of the Inscriptions
San Andrés, El Salvador
Tazumal
Tikal: Tikal Temple I; Tikal Temple II; Tikal Temple III; Tikal Temple IV; Tikal Temple V; Lost World Pyramid; Talud-Tablero Temple
Tonina
Uxmal
Yaxchilan
Yaxha
Xunantunich

Comment:
Setanta, do you ever amaze yourself with your complete lack of understanding and knowledge?

Also in the US:
Some 70 mounds are preserved in Cahokia Mounds State Historic Site. Established in 1979 and encompassing 3.4 square miles (8.9 square km), it was designated a UNESCO World Heritage site in 1982. Cahokia was first occupied in ad 700 and flourished for approximately four centuries (c. 950–1350).

You know, "mounds" nearly identical to the ones in Great Britain and all over Europe? So we have yet again one more comparative cultural similarity that you choose to ignore.

Just in case you might wonder, it takes about 3-4 weeks to sail across the Atlantic Ocean...

Brazilian boats and canoes.

Comment: And of course there is not enough rain water and fish while on the Atlantic ocean to last 3 to 4 weeks. The Phoenicians were terrible sailors too. (cynical)

And there are even more Mesoamerican pyramids

List of Mesoamerican pyramids
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mesoamerican_pyramids

It seems everything you have said here is simply "crap" Setanta.

It is you who is warping history to fit a small minded and disingenuous agenda. Your certainty is oblivious... while I am not saying there was contact, I am simply saying there is evidence and reason to not discount cultural contact between the continents as completely as you have.

Do you really think Columbus was the only curious sailor in many thousands of years who gazed out at the sea and wondered if there was something beyond the distant horizon?

Do you think Noah was the only man who one day decided to built a huge boat?

Your mind is closed and devoid of wonder and possibility.

I did not say that pre-Colombians did not ever have graven images. You have to lie for your stupid "lol" moment. Specifically, I said that the people in what is now called Ecuador had monumental architecture but did not use graven images--by which I meant on that architecture. I was not referring to Mes0-America, I referred to the pyramids in what is now called Ecuador, which is what your idiotic image copied and pasted from your "Ancient Aliens" site claimed. As I pointed out, what we now call Ecuador is not Meso-America. From your favorite authority, Wikipedia:



If you didn't peddle lies and distortions, you'd have nothing to say. You have not provided any credible evidence that, to quote you, "Babylonian religion actually came from Mesoamerica." Brazil is not in Meso-America, so talking about what sea-faring they did is not relevant. Please provide some evidence instead of running your idiotic mouth on subjects about which you know nothing. Most importantly, learn some geography and some history. As a start, you might be able to distinguish between Meso-America and Brazil and Ecuador. In fact, the earliest voyage across the Atlantic to reach North America, of which we have a record, was that of Bjarni Herjolfsson, who was blown off course when attempting to reach Greenland, and reached what is now called Newfoundland in 985 CE. You might even learn something interesting and reliable--although I doubt it, given that you lend credence so "Ancient Aliens" web sties.

By what apparently passed for logic at your house, if you saw a bull and noted that it has two horns, and then saw a rhinoceros and noted that it has two horns, you'd say it is the same animal.

Stop lying about what I write.

As for that Noah bullsh*t, have you got some evidence for that? It's hilarious to believe that a geezer supposed to be 600 years old built such a vessel (which would have foundered in the open ocean). Just believing in a 600 year old geezer is hilarious.

I have a sense of wonder, but I avoid witless credulity. I recommend that to you.

But, but, Methuselah -

I've heard that old story before . . .