Is spirital warfare as obvious as it once was?

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!

headofthefield- is your initials av?

Imposter what on earth are you talking about?

Re: Is spirital warfare as obvious as it once was?


You mean evangelism? That's been around for a long time.

Spiritual warfare?

Warfare presumes multiplicity, at least duality. Warfare also presumes antagonism between two, or more, contending parties. In the Zoroastrian model, the Sons of Light (Ahora Mazda) are in eternal cosmic conflict with the Sons of Darkness (Ariman). The children of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, have both tended to adopt that model of religious Reality. God, in this model, must inevitably win the struggle ... so the conclusion is foregone. Satan, to pick only one of the many terms associated with darkness, evil, pride, rebelliousness, and destruction, has no chance of winning, but continues the battle that gives meaning to virtue, faith, and all of the other positive values that religion wishes to impart. Without evil there is no virtue. Being untested, untempted following the paths of religious rectitude are a meaningless sham.

That is not a model of Ultimate Reality that as a Buddhist I accept. For me, Ultimate Reality is indivisible and present in all times, events, and places. Our senses and desires lure us into the belief that the perceptual world is Real. This illusion leads us into many errors, all of which lead to suffering and sorrow. We want what we do not have, and suffer. We lose whatever it is we treasure, and we suffer. We become ill, suffer pain, grow old, death comes, and we suffer. We are driven by our emotions and suffer the consequences of anger, jealousy, greed, and love less perfect than our dreams. And, we suffer. Suffering is not evil, but we all flee before it always searching for pleasure, contentment and fulfillment. The more we seek pleasure and "virtue", the more we are caught up in the illusory world that is the cause of suffering.

Suffering can be conquered, and one doesn't have to wait for "heaven" or some future existence to be free from it. You can break the chains that bind you to the ills of this world. There is a path, and it is well marked for those who wish to travel it. It is a difficult path that requires constant attention, for the way is filled hazards and many who begin fail to go more than a little way along it. Throw away your ego, lighten your load for the long journey. The Middle Way beckons, and many have reached the goal.

In this model "spiritual warfare" is meaningless. Indeed, it can only lead to increased sorrow and suffering for all those whom it touches. Soldiers in such a "crusade" ultimately are True Believers and they are one of the most destructive forces that our species can produce. The SS were True Believers. The Communist movement which killed more people than the Nazis, were led by True Believers. Those radical religious sorts who let children die rather than to provide readily available medical care are True Believers. True Believers are idealists who can not conceive ever that their understanding of things might possibly be wrong. That's the sort of faith demanded of soldiers in "Spiritual Warfare". That's what sustains suicidal car bombers, and terrorists who murder children to advance their goals. In the end, True Believers do themselves almost as much harm as they wish upon those they've decided to demonize. They should be resisted, and when they actively seek to achieve their ends by harming others we are obligated to sacrifice.

Be specific, you mean conflict between different religions? Or do you mean conflict in the 'spirit realm' between Angels and Demons etc..?

Warfare is unspiritual.

Peace is spiritual, but there isn't too much of that these days.

Wouldn't it be cool if we gave the angels and demons rocket-launchers and fully automatic weaponry? It'd be like, "Saving Private Lucifer"...

Come to think of it I'm sure lucifer could make better than private...

Maybe make that, "Saving Cherubim Elael?"

Just listening, as I'm having difficulty understanding the question.

MA, Me too! Glad to hear I'm not the only one.

'Spirital warfare'? And the heading seems to say something different from the body of the post. Ahh, we're probably both just a couple of old dummies, c.i.

I've known "that" for the longest time.

Seems to me "spiritual warfare" has been an age-old problem; nothing new.

I belive "spiritual warfare" is a quote from the McArthy era, something to do with "under god" being inserted innto the pledge I think.

Nah, give them samurai swords and let the slice 'n dice eachother! Then it would be like 'the last samurai', only not...

An example I see is in the schools. A kid wears a T-shirt with Satan on it doing some horrible thing and another kid wears a T-shirt showing Jesus hanging on the cross. Guess who get suspended? If you said the kid with Jesus on his shirt then you get a cigar. BUT what about his freedom of speech?

Let him complain when he gets burned at the stake.

Most of us would agree that neither kid should be suspended. Do you have a link to this story?

The rights of Christian students to express/practice their faith has been successfully defended in the courts by the ACLU and others.

BTW, I don't see how this is an example of spiritual warfare.