23
   

Shep Smith: Journalists are not the enemy of the people

 
 
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 07:42 pm
@livinglava,
You already gave that example, I'm not really impressed by the example. I am impressed with your logic and the way you word things and calm way you express yourself. However, your argument is not persuasive. All news have the faults you list because humans write/and report news. People usually go to news sources which align with their own beliefs. I could watch Fox News for a hundred years and never be persuaded by their news simply because their news slant so to speak does not align with my own thinking and beliefs. The press is a business, they would not make a profit if they did not know their audience. You act as though there has been a huge liberal conspiracy going on for years and years to gull people into thinking and believing a certain way. It is bull.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 07:50 pm
@neptuneblue,
Quote:
It's up to YOU, as an informed citizen to discern fact from fiction. It may be hard for you but it's a rather easy task for me.
If you have any familiarity with truth vs journalism (and it's obvious you don't), you would know how inaccurate / difficult this is.

That said, presumably you mean truth (rather than fact from fiction), because facts and truth can be miles apart. If you only give half the facts of many events, you give accurate facts, but the listener/reader ends up with people believing the opposite of the truth. Checking the accuracy is difficult, because who else reports such things? Other news corps? Small bit time players with dubious sources?

News corporations engage in this sort of nonsense on a daily basis. They have shareholders. Their interest is ratings / readership, which translates directly into how much they can sell their advertising for, which translate into profits for their shareholders. Loyal Viewer/readership is directly related to how much the news corporation can stimulate the emotions of their readers...that is best achieved by:
- playing to their prejudices
- playing to sensationalism
- providing half the facts in order to trigger outrage / fear / other strong emotions
- etc

Because of the above, they also have little interest in reporting things that make people uncomfortable...which can be a large part of the world in which powerful governments and corporations meddle in foreign affairs.
neptuneblue
 
  4  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 07:57 pm
@vikorr,
That's why a variety of news services are offered. Each one reports "news" and "opinion" based on which way the network wants its slant.

Verifiable facts are not subjective. I am, which leads to an educated, informed opinion. To call most "fake" but one "real" news source is deeming one ultimate view.

What happens when that ONE news source falls out of favor with the President?
vikorr
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 08:00 pm
@neptuneblue,
Oh I agree that the nonsense Trump is perpetuating is dangerous.

Quote:
That's why a variety of news services are offered. Each one reports "news" and "opinion" based on which way the network wants its slant.
Yes, although you missed a much bigger picture.

Quote:
Verifiable facts are not subjective.
Again, you missed the bigger picture. You don't appear familiar with what missing facts can achieve. You can tell the 'truth' (ie give accurate facts), and totally mislead people, based purely on missing information.

It's a common practice in journalism.
roger
 
  3  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 08:05 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

Quote:
. . .. You can tell the 'truth' (ie give accurate facts), and totally mislead people, based purely on missing information.

It's a common practice in journalism.
Ain't that the cotton pickin' truth.
0 Replies
 
neptuneblue
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 08:08 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:
It's a common practice in journalism.


Glad to know, I wouldn't have known that without you telling me.

Now that I've been properly informed by YOU on how journalism actually works, I can sleep better now, so thank you so very much for your concern about my education.

*Sarcasm meter flying off the chart
vikorr
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 08:12 pm
@neptuneblue,
Quote:
Glad to know, I wouldn't have known that without you telling me.
Given what you've written, it's very obvious you don't know, or comprehend it. Your sarcasm is understandable.
neptuneblue
 
  4  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 08:15 pm
@vikorr,
Your condescending tone makes sarcasm the only answer.
vikorr
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 08:28 pm
@neptuneblue,
As I said, I understood the sarcasm.

Though that you see a condescending tone is purely you projecting your own insecurities. There isn't a pleasant way to say you don't comprehend the difficulty in telling truth from deception in the realm of journalism. There isn't a pleasant way to say you don't understand just how problematic media reporting is. Highly aware people know the difficulty in ascertaining the truth of many things they don't have direct knowledge of. You aren't.

I could compliment you and say that your checking facts is far better than what the vast majority do, however it would still need to be coupled with the above. What then is the point? It would come across as insincere.
neptuneblue
 
  4  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 08:32 pm
@vikorr,
As with all things, there comes a point to agree to disagree.

I think we've reached that point.

0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 08:46 pm
@neptuneblue,
neptuneblue wrote:
...So when the idea that the press is the “enemy” of America starts to float, we ought to be concerned....let us simply look at a world without a free press....

Fabulous, except for the fact that the president never said anything negative about a free press or the press as an institution. For the millionth time, I love the police as an institution, but there are bad cops.
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 08:57 pm
@Brandon9000,
Citing the CORRECT source...

"Mitch Albom: If a free press is the 'enemy,' then who is your friend?
Mitch Albom, Detroit Free Press Published 12:00 a.m. ET Aug. 5, 2018
Donald Trump
(Photo: AP)

So when the idea that the press is the “enemy” of America starts to float, we ought to be concerned. After all, you can name two other famous leaders in the last century who defined their critics as “enemies of the people”: Soviet dictator Josef Stalin and Chinese dictator Mao Zedong."


glitterbag
 
  4  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 09:05 pm
@vikorr,
I’m a little surprised about the tone you took with Neptune. You can disagree without being disagreeable, but apparently you forgot to do that. I don’t always agree with you, maybe more often I do than not, but you’re recent fit of pique was unflattering to you.

I was disappointed to see you resort to that tactic.
Real Music
 
  3  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 09:44 pm
@vikorr,
Quote:
Again, you missed the bigger picture. You don't appear familiar with what missing facts can achieve. You can tell the 'truth' (ie give accurate facts), and totally mislead people, based purely on missing information.
It's a common practice in journalism.



0 Replies
 
OldGrumpy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 11:08 pm
if people just knew how scripted all the news is!











Nothing NEWS about it!

0 Replies
 
OldGrumpy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 11:34 pm
Another wake up call that mainstream news=FAKE NEWS

Towers of Deception: The Media Cover-Up of 9/11



http://towersofdeception.com/book_cover.jpg
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Aug, 2018 06:19 am
@glitterbag,
If you see it as pique, then that is what you see it as. She saw it as condescending, and she's also entitled to her views...neither means that is what it is. One of the flaws of written English is loss of tone, so people can only project what tone they would personally use if they were saying particular words. Do you honestly think how I say such things, is how you would say such things, or how Neptune would say such things? That our motivations would be the same, that our level of understanding of the other persons positions would be the same? etc

As a slight side track, if related - Livinglava's posts were quite good for anyone who has experience of the breadth of what he/she was talking about, but few here appear to have comprehended them.

The simple fact is, if you have been in a position to know the full facts of multiple newsworthy stories (whether directly, or from a close reliable source), you will see just how slanted news reporting is, and how much they leave out, and how those missing facts can completely alter the complexion of the story. If you have been in that position, you also realise how easy it is to be caught out believing something to be true when it's not (after you find out the whole story). You also then realise how difficult it is to tell fact from fiction. It's very good that Neptune checks her stories...but it's not good that she thinks it's easy for her to tell fact (read truth) from fiction.

Likely the biggest problem is, unless you have that direct experience, or like livinglava, studied it, it seems most people can't comprehend the breadth of the problem (though many are aware of the problem in specific ares, like in relation to Trump).


revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Aug, 2018 06:39 am
@vikorr,
Do you think people don't know the media leaves stuff out for one reason or another before you mentioned it? Do you think people don't realize that most news nowadays is slanted (except a few that seem to hang on like local news channels, however now that Sinclair is trying to buy them out...)towards their audience? Do ya'll imagine you were the first people in the world to figure this out? What you are describing is twenty four hour news on cable news channels, all of them do it.

What we (the ones who do) disagree with is that it some kind of agenda news casters have to manipulate people with distortions rather than pandering to their audience. What matters is, are their facts correct. If they make up facts as a matter of policy, then yes I agree it would be fake news.

neptuneblue
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Aug, 2018 09:11 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

There isn't a pleasant way to say you don't understand just how problematic media reporting is. Highly aware people know the difficulty in ascertaining the truth of many things they don't have direct knowledge of. You aren't.


I grew up in cow country. The family across the street turned a pasture into an airfield and bought a small bi-plane for family weekend getaways. They took off and landed 500 feet from their own front door.

One summer day when I was 15, we watched Mr. R come in for a landing. Except one wing clipped the tree line and he lost control and crashed. He didn't die immediately but the loss of blood got him.

The crash was all over the news. Crews were out and interviewed the adults who had varying opinions on the matter. The video shots panned in on the biggest blood soaked spot on the pilot's chair. They showed the hand smear on the door as the shot panned into the back seat where his children's homework and toys were strewn about.

My friends lost their dad that day. And all the new reports said it was pilot error that caused the crash, Everything reported was factually true. Mr. R caused his own death.

The truth wasn't a comforting thought at the funeral though.

I think it was the next week that "Dirty Laundry" by Don Henley came out.


0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 11 Aug, 2018 11:07 am
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

You already gave that example, I'm not really impressed by the example. I am impressed with your logic and the way you word things and calm way you express yourself. However, your argument is not persuasive. All news have the faults you list because humans write/and report news. People usually go to news sources which align with their own beliefs. I could watch Fox News for a hundred years and never be persuaded by their news simply because their news slant so to speak does not align with my own thinking and beliefs. The press is a business, they would not make a profit if they did not know their audience. You act as though there has been a huge liberal conspiracy going on for years and years to gull people into thinking and believing a certain way. It is bull.

Paradigm-loyalty is a form of conspiracy, but it's a subconscious one. It's the kind of conspiracy that a surprise birthday party is where lots of people know it's someone's birthday and they know they're not supposed to give away the surprise, so they sort of structure their thinking in a way that achieves the goal.

Dem/liberal propaganda works that way. They have certain goals and they structure their thinking and publications to propagate those goals. Then, when people disagree with their paradigm, they ridicule them as being stupid, because in their minds adherence to the paradigm constitutes intelligence and deviation from the paradigm equals stupidity.
 

 
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