one of Socrates quotes

As written the sentence doesn't mean anything, probably because it's a bad translation. Try and get the original Greek text from your source then compare it to this passage:

Philebus 28d

Σωκράτης


πότερον,[..], τὰ σύμπαντα καὶ τόδε τὸ καλούμενον ολον επιτροπεύειν φωμεν τὴν του αλόγου καὶ εικη δύναμιν καὶ τὸ οπη έτυχεν, η ταναντία, καθάπερ οι πρόσθεν ημων ελεγον, νουν καὶ φρόνησίν τινα θαυμαστὴν συντάττουσαν διακυβερναν;

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0173;query=section%3D%23290;layout=;loc=Phileb.%2028c

P.S. if your source can't provide the Greek text, or if you can't read the alphabet, search the database on my link for a good English translation of the passage (Plato dialogue "Philebus" paragraph 28d).

I can only assume your are quoting Plato quoting Socrates.

P.P.S. this is one translation of the Greek text I posted:

"Socrates

Shall we say, [..], that all things and this which is called the universe are governed by an irrational and fortuitous power and mere chance, or, on the contrary, as our forefathers said, are ordered and directed by mind and a marvellous wisdom?"

The meaning here is clear enough, but if that's not the text origin of the translation you got you can also search the database by code words.

Dyslexia - all this time you thought I'm the original H of T?! Hate to disappoint you...She'd have had to be a few centuries old to have heard Socrates anyway.

As I said though the original text as entered by ElinorWang is so incomprehensible it reads like a machine translation from the Greek; let's see if she comes back with more info.

HofT and dyslexia, thanks a lot.

I am afraid that I cannot to provide you any original text or further info, for this question posted on a Taiwanese website was submitted by a professional translator who would like to know the meaning and try to translate it into Chinese. And I am just a leaner and curious to know the meaning of this quote. Anyway, thank you.

Another interesting quote from Socratese:

"The youth of today dress and behave immodestly, have no respect for their elders, nor concern for their own futures"

Some things never change.

and then something about beware of greeks bearing hemlock

Elinor - your additional information cleared up the origin of your quote. It's not by Socrates at all; it was made by his contemporary, Protagoras. The version posted on your website is the one used by Diogenes Laertes >
_____________________________________________________________
Diogenes' Lives of the Philosophers is probably our single most extensive source for many early Greek philosophers' works and biographies. Unfortunately, his work was compiled over six hundred years after Protagoras' death and is an uncritical compilation of materials from a wide variety of sources, some reliable, some not, and many hopelessly garbled
http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/p/protagor.htm
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> but from other sources we know Protagoras to have made statements with the general sense:

"Time rules everybody including the gods. Chance governs all human events, but its effects can be mitigated by skillful application of the arts."

That's the meaning of your text; should be clear enough to be translated into Chinese.

timberlandko, dyslexia and HofT, thanks again.


HofT, according to your explanation, the quote was made by Protagoras and used by Diogenes Laertes; but I feel there are two contradictions between this quote of the first part and the statement of Protagoras.

"God in everything but time,................"

"Time rules everybody including the gods..........."

1. Why is "God" singular in the quote but "the gods" plural in the statement?

2. What is the real meaning of "God" and "the gods" at the time?

3. "God in everything but time,..." means God is eternal and must exist outside of time. This is contradictory to the point of "Time rules everybody including the gods..........." Would you please shed some lights on this?

Thanks

Elinor - there is no contradiction. The god according to Protagoras is a god in all matters but not in the matter of time - that means that time is greater (stronger, superior) than the god. Time rules the god, not the other way around, as your interpretation would suggest.

Since the ancients believed in many gods, btw, it's OK to write the word without capitalizing the first letter. As to the meaning of "god" or "gods": Protagoras didn't think humans could know much about the gods, so he usually spoke of one. If you look up the links I posted you'll find many more of his sayings.

Please keep in mind this is the complete answer to your original question about the Greek text, not a personal opinion on theology!

P.S. to Elinor - as I won't be posting until the end of this month due to overseas travel, pls remember to start another thread if you wish to discuss general theological questions such as how can a god be subjected to the rule of time when he should be outside time, what was the meaning the Greeks gave to one or more gods, etc. At any rate in the text here use of singular or plural for "god" is the same according to Protagoras' philosophy: this means you can if you like re-write the text to read:

"Time rules everybody including god. Chance governs all human events, but its effects can be mitigated by skillful application of the arts."

HofT, I am deeply grateful for your sharing. And have a nice and safe trip.
Thank you.

It's been a long time, but I wanted to bring this thread up because A2K now once again supports ancient Greek text - and most mathematical symbols as well. I lost my old name (HofT) after leaving the forum for over a year; this is my new name.

Besides, I'm partial to posters who, like Ms Wang, take the time to thank whoever replied!