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The BTK killer and your medical privacy

 
 
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 10:30 am
I was reading an article about the arrest of the BTK killer who terroized Wichita for 30 years and I was thinking "Right on!" until I came to this paragraph towards the end of the report....

"The Wichita Eagle reprted Thursday, citing unidentified sources, that investigators had obtained DNA before Rader's arrest from a tissue sample that came from his 26-year old daughter's medical records. They took the sample without her knowledge to keep Rader from discovering they were zeroing in on him, the newpaper said."

Sneaking tissue samples out of his daughter's medical records?

Does this strike anyone else as ethically problematic?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,130 • Replies: 11
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duce
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 10:56 am
In the South Condfidentially is virtually non-existant. We pay it lip service, but for the most part everything is everybody's business. When I lived in a small southern town, I will never forget my receptionist calling the Local Hospital, to find out why so-&-so was there (She had seen someone she barley new enter the hospital While at lunch)--and over the phone they told her, not only that this lady was there for a pregnancy test, but that it was positive. TURE STORY.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 11:14 am
Gossip is terrible and in the situation you cite, most likely illegal.

But to have the police go through your medical records without your knowledge because they suspect your father of a crime seems to open doors into all of our medical records if we might have a suspicious relative.

Scary stuff, in my opinion.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 11:20 am
I'm pretty much ok with it, as long as it's not random poking around in records. I'd imagine a search warrant would have been needed, with explanations to a judge why the material was needed.

But I'm canajun, and the canajun legal perspective on this sort of thing has been noted to be different.
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Ticomaya
 
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Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 11:26 am
The sample was obtained by subpoena, so they weren't "sneaked."

Quote:
The agents went to prosecutors in the Sedgwick County district attorney's office, and a judge in Sedgwick County issued a subpoena for the 26-year-old daughter's medical records in Kansas, a source said.

It wasn't clear where in Kansas the records and the tissue sample had been held.

DNA was extracted from the daughter's tissue sample, and it was processed within the week before Rader's arrest, the source said.


Here's a link to the story in the Eagle.
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boomerang
 
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Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 11:40 am
That's interesting eBeth. Do you think that the Canadian government sponsors health care might have something to do with the difference in the way these things are viewed?

Thanks for the link, Ticomaya, that explains things a bit better.

Still, I think this walks a very thin line, ethically.

And, just to speculate on such things -- what if the daughter had only been thought to be his biological daughter? The whole momma's baby, poppa's maybe thing. What if the DNA information they found had cleared him, despite all of the other evidence they had?
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ehBeth
 
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Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 11:44 am
I don't think the way the health care system is funded has any relationship to how judges would view this type of request.

Getting search warrants/subpoenas isn't easy, so there must have been some pretty good evidence going before the judge.
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fishin
 
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Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 04:44 pm
boomerang wrote:
And, just to speculate on such things -- what if the daughter had only been thought to be his biological daughter? The whole momma's baby, poppa's maybe thing. What if the DNA information they found had cleared him, despite all of the other evidence they had?


Even if the DNA test had come back not being a match it probably wouldn't have removed him from the suspect pool. To get a warrant you have to have a fairly sizeable amount of evidence already so if the DNA didn't pan out he might have gone from being the "Most probable" to "3rd most probable" but he wouldn't drop off the radar entirely. It may have just taken longer to find something conclusive enough to make an arrest.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 06:21 pm
That makes sense fishin'!

I guess this doesn't bother anyone else the way it did (does) me. The thought of the police subpoening my medical records to find out about someone else's behavior is just creepy to me.

I'm glad that they finally got this guy off of the streets but using the daughter's medical tests just seems like a huge invasion of her privacy.

In a roundabout way it makes me wonder - to children not have the same rights as spouses when it comes to testifying against someone?
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 06:39 pm
boomerang wrote:
In a roundabout way it makes me wonder - to children not have the same rights as spouses when it comes to testifying against someone?


I don't believe adult children do but I know some allowances have been made for minor children in some cases. People are much more likely to confide in their spouse than a child methinks.

I'm not thrilled with teh idea that teh government can get a supeona for someone's medical history (Hell! I can't even get my own insurance company to tell me what it is that they've denied a claim on my child for! lol) but I recognize it as a necessary evil in the justice system.
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 08:05 am
evidence of a crime
The Medical Records Confidentiality Act of 1995

Quote:
SEC. 212. LAW ENFORCEMENT.

(a) GOVERNMENT SUBPOENAS AND WARRANTS.

(1) IN GENERAL. A health information trustee shall disclose
protected health information under this section if the disclosure is
pursuant to
(A) a subpoena issued under the authority of a grand jury; or
(B) an administrative subpoena or summons or a judicial subpoena
or warrant, which meets the conditions of paragraph (2).

(2) PROBABLE CAUSE REQUIREMENT. A government authority may not obtain protected health information about an individual under paragraph (1) for use in a law enforcement inquiry unless there is probable cause to believe that the information is relevant to a legitimate law enforcement inquiry being conducted by the government authority.


COMPARE:

U.S. Constitution

Quote:
Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Illinois v Gates, 462 U. S. 213 (1983)
U. S. Supreme Court
http://laws.findlaw.com/us/462/213.html

Quote:
The task of the [warrant] issuing magistrate is simply to make a practical, common-sense decision whether, given all the circumstances set forth in the affidavit before him, including the "veracity" and "basis of knowledge" of persons supplying hearsay information, there is a fair probability that contraband or evidence of a crime will be found in a particular place. And the duty of a reviewing court is simply to ensure that the magistrate had a "substantial basis for . . . conclud[ing]" that probable cause [462 U.S. 213, 239] existed. Jones v. United States, 362 U.S., at 271 . We are convinced that this flexible, easily applied standard will better achieve the accommodation of public and private interests that the Fourth Amendment requires. . . .


Certainly, the fourth amendment trumps an ordinary statute. Certainly, the daughter had a reasonable expectation of privacy in her medical records. This is a right of privacy that is so imperative to an individual's wellbeing, that the law provides for confidentiality. Was there a fair probability that the daughter's medical records contained contraband or evidence of a crime? I don't think so . . . the government seized a tissue sample, which -- in and of itself -- is not contraband or evidence of a crime.

The government then subjected the tissue sample to additional testing to obtain information that was NOT in the medical records. The government used the tissue sample to ascertain the daughter's genetic code. The daughter's genetic code is not contraband or evidence of a crime -- but rather might be relevant in determining whether HER FATHER can be included or excluded as a suspect in crimes.

I believe the daughter's right to privacy protected by the Fourth Amendment was violated. However, her father has NO STANDING to challenge the violation of someone else's constitutionally protected rights.

But, what does this tell you? You might think your private medical records are confidential and protected by law . . . but think again. If your medical records are deemed relevant to any government inquiry, the government can search and seize your records.

Rush Limbaugh had no protected right of privacy in his records . . . no one does . . .

See also: Kansas AG demands abortion records

Quote:
Full records include women's sexual histories
Friday, February 25, 2005 Posted: 5:13 AM EST (1013 GMT)

TOPEKA, Kansas (AP) -- The Kansas attorney general is demanding abortion clinics turn over the complete medical records of nearly 90 women and girls, saying he needs the material for an investigation into underage sex and illegal late-term abortions. . . .
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Badboy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jul, 2005 06:51 am
He is claiming he was possessed by demons!
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